What poster has moved furthest left and right since coming here?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Furthest left - opebo is too obvious, so I'll say Tweed. He used to attack the liberal wing of the Democratic party (and believed Hillary would be their candidate in 2008, lol), and now is far to the left of it.

Furthest right - Gabu. Went from a solid liberal to a school voucher supporter who approves of Giuliani.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Josh has moved furthest left and right

[Verily]

Yay! Another excuse for BRTD to attack Gabu!

[DownWithTheLeft]

Yay! Another excuse for BRTD to attack Gabu!

Expect a Gully Foyle thread next

[Nym90]

I'd hardly say Gabu qualifies as anything but a solid liberal. He's a relatively moderate and eminently reasonable one, but still liberal nonetheless.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Furthest left - opebo is too obvious, so I'll say Tweed. He used to attack the liberal wing of the Democratic party (and believed Hillary would be their candidate in 2008, lol), and now is far to the left of it.

Furthest right - Gabu. Went from a solid liberal to a school voucher supporter who approves of Giuliani.

Opebo wasn't always as left as he is.

I'd say Down went from socially very conservative to pretty liberal/moderately liberal.

I don't know about furthest right though.

[Gabu]

Furthest right - Gabu. Went from a solid liberal to a school voucher supporter who approves of Giuliani.

BRTD, you turn taking things out of context into an art form.

And for the record, I'm a strong Obama supporter and would vote for any of the Democrats over any of the Republicans.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Furthest right - Gabu. Went from a solid liberal to a school voucher supporter who approves of Giuliani.

BRTD, you turn taking things out of context into an art form.

And for the record, I'm a strong Obama supporter.

The entire post I took that quote from:

So far the best possiblity for a GOP Victory.

Although the obvious question to ask is this: would the GOP want to win if Giuliani was their candidate?  From everything I know of the guy, he's way to the left of your average Republican.  Heck, I wouldn't have much of a problem with a Giuliani presidency.

Not that much different in context.

Also this:

Republicans
Favorable
Giuliani

[Gabu]

It's completely different because of this sentence:

From everything I know of [Giuliani], he's way to the left of your average Republican.

In other words, I said that I wouldn't have a problem with his presidency because I knew very little of him and thought he seemed fairly liberal, comparatively speaking.  This was well before the campaign had gotten even remotely underway and before Giuliani had made the theme of his candidacy clear to the Republicans he has pandered to since then.  If you asked me the question again, I would respond that I have favorable feelings towards none of the Republicans.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It's completely different because of this sentence:

From everything I know of [Giuliani], he's way to the left of your average Republican.

In other words, I said that I wouldn't have a problem with his presidency because I knew very little of him and thought he seemed fairly liberal, comparatively speaking.  This was well before the campaign had gotten even remotely underway and before Giuliani had made the theme of his candidacy clear to the Republicans he has pandered to since then.  If you asked me the question again, I would respond that I have favorable feelings towards none of the Republicans.

The quote was made in February. That was after Giuliani campaigned for Rick Santorum and Ken Blackwell and LONG after his 2004 RNC speech.

[Gabu]

Also, from the identical post that you just quoted, there is this:

Democrats
Favorable
Obama
Richardson
Edwards
Dodd

Unfavorable
Clinton

Yes, I'm such a hard-right conservative that I like most of the Democrats running.  And I'm such a rightie that I don't like Hillary for her support of the war as well as her general aura of sleazy politician.

The quote was made in February. That was after Giuliani campaigned for Rick Santorum and Ken Blackwell and LONG after his 2004 RNC speech.

Yes, the latter of which I didn't read or watch and the former two of which I was unaware of because I am not what you would call a political junkie.

All this proves is that I was ignorant of where Giuliani stood, which is not something I have once attempted to hide or deny.

[Dr. Cynic]

Also, from the identical post that you just quoted, there is this:

Democrats
Favorable
Obama
Richardson
Edwards
Dodd

Unfavorable
Clinton

Yes, I'm such a hard-right conservative that I like most of the Democrats running.  And I'm such a rightie that I don't like Hillary for her support of the war as well as her general aura of sleazy politician.

The quote was made in February. That was after Giuliani campaigned for Rick Santorum and Ken Blackwell and LONG after his 2004 RNC speech.

Yes, the latter of which I didn't read or watch and the former two of which I was unaware of because I am not what you would call a political junkie.

All this proves is that I was ignorant of where Giuliani stood, which is not something I have once attempted to hide or deny.

Don't bother, Gabu. He's just trying to get you pissed off. We all know you're not a conservative.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I never said Gabu was a conservative, I've said he's moved to the right.

That said, his position on school vouchers is far right wing extremist (to the right of over 60% of UTAH voters)

[Nym90]

I never said Gabu was a conservative

He also supports school vouchers, which makes him far right since that's so right wing even UTAH rejected it and in being pro-censorship he did sort of defend bans on violent movies and video games with a disclaimer "no, I'm not saying I support that but it's not really a bad thing!"

[Aizen]

BRTD, are you seriously attacking Gabu for something he said almost a year ago? Something that you've taken out of context from the looks of it. That's sad. Grow the hell up. Jesus Christ.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I never said Gabu was a conservative

He also supports school vouchers, which makes him far right since that's so right wing even UTAH rejected it and in being pro-censorship he did sort of defend bans on violent movies and video games with a disclaimer "no, I'm not saying I support that but it's not really a bad thing!"

I'm just backing up a point to opebo.

I can't say I can remember anything specific about Gabu.  He seems not a very interesting character.  I do have a vague negative feeling about him - seems like I remember him being a right-winger and pro-censorship.

opebo's definition of "right-winger" is much different than most peoples' though. Gabu is a right-winger by opebo's standards, but he's a centrist by mine.

[Gabu]

I never said Gabu was a conservative, I've said he's moved to the right.

That said, his position on school vouchers is far right wing extremist (to the right of over 60% of UTAH voters)

Oh boy, here we go again.

I don't get what your fascination is with cherry-picking stances I hold in an attempt to say that I'm not liberal.  Why exactly do you even care whether or not I'm liberal?  Do you feel threatened or something at the prospect of sharing a quadrant of the political matrix with me?  It's not exactly like I make a big deal out of ideology and try to shove it into everyone's face.  As I have already said many times in the past, ideologies really are rather irrelevant to me except as a quick summary to fill in the gaps in a person's set of stances that they haven't already enumerated.

I consider myself a liberal because the large majority of my political stances happen to fall in that quadrant.  That's all.  It is not how I define myself, nor is it where I derive my stances, so the prospect of not being called a liberal is not exactly something I consider a threat.

[Eraserhead]

Shouldn't Josh22 qualify for both of these titles?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I never said Gabu was a conservative, I've said he's moved to the right.

That said, his position on school vouchers is far right wing extremist (to the right of over 60% of UTAH voters)

Oh boy, here we go again.

I don't get what your fascination is with cherry-picking stances I hold in an attempt to say that I'm not liberal.  Why exactly do you even care whether or not I'm liberal?  Do you feel threatened or something at the prospect of sharing a quadrant of the political matrix with me?  It's not exactly like I make a big deal out of ideology and try to shove it into everyone's face.  As I have already said many times in the past, ideologies really are rather irrelevant to me except as a quick summary to fill in the gaps in a person's set of stances that they haven't already enumerated.

I consider myself a liberal because the large majority of my political stances happen to fall in that quadrant.  That's all.  It is not how I define myself, nor is it where I derive my stances, so the prospect of not being called a liberal is not exactly something I consider a threat.

It mostly comes our little argument in this thread: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=51343.0

[Gabu]

I never said Gabu was a conservative, I've said he's moved to the right.

That said, his position on school vouchers is far right wing extremist (to the right of over 60% of UTAH voters)

Oh boy, here we go again.

I don't get what your fascination is with cherry-picking stances I hold in an attempt to say that I'm not liberal.  Why exactly do you even care whether or not I'm liberal?  Do you feel threatened or something at the prospect of sharing a quadrant of the political matrix with me?  It's not exactly like I make a big deal out of ideology and try to shove it into everyone's face.  As I have already said many times in the past, ideologies really are rather irrelevant to me except as a quick summary to fill in the gaps in a person's set of stances that they haven't already enumerated.

I consider myself a liberal because the large majority of my political stances happen to fall in that quadrant.  That's all.  It is not how I define myself, nor is it where I derive my stances, so the prospect of not being called a liberal is not exactly something I consider a threat.

It mostly comes our little argument in this thread: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=51343.0

That was a year ago.  Had you not posted a link to that thread, I would not even have remembered it.

Here, since I haven't taken the Political Matrix test in months and since I was already going to do it again, I'll disclose my answers as I go, just for you:

1. The PATRIOT act is an infringement on civil rights. - Agree (Important)
2. The government should penalise organisations that practise outsourcing. - Neutral (I haven't really sufficiently researched free trade)
3. Giving faith-based charities the same government resources as secular organisations is a good idea. - Strongly disagree
4. We should increase foreign aid to countries struggling with poverty. - Agree
5. We should increase funding for education. - Strongly agree (Important)
6. Heterosexual couples should receive higher marital recognition than homosexual couples. - Strongly Disagree
7. Overall, free trade hurts more than it helps. - Neutral (see #2)
8. We should reduce the number of government programs substantially. - Disagree
9. Abortion should be illegal or very heavily restricted. - Disagree
10. The government should fund museums, theatres, and other cultural institutions that are unable to survive independently. - Strongly Agree
11. The government should subsidise health insurance for those who cannot easily afford it. - Strongly Agree (Important)
12. The government should work to reduce children's exposure to offensive radio and television content. - Disagree
13. It is unfair that wealthier people pay higher tax rates. - Strongly Disagree
14. The minimum wage should be raised. - Agree (it is getting raised, and I agree with that)
15. Marijuana should be legalised. - Strongly Agree
16. Social security should be at least partially privatised. - Neutral (haven't really researched social security sufficiently)
17. Violating individual rights is acceptable when it comes to fighting terrorism. - Strongly Disagree (Important)
18. Current levels of government regulation on industry are excessive. - Disagree
19. The government should provide basic needs for all people. - Agree (provided they attempt to find work, but I checked "agree")
20. The death penalty should be an option for serious crimes. - Disagree (I've been convinced out of it)
21. We should reduce the difficulty of immigration. - Strongly Agree (Important)
22. Union workers should be protected against being fired during strikes. - Strongly Agree (Important)
23. Prostitution should be legalised. - Agree
24. Flag burning should be illegalised. - Strongly Disagree
25. I support affirmative action. - Disagree
26. The government should impose tariffs to protect industries from foreign competition. - Neutral (see #2)
27. Physician-assisted suicide should be legal if the patient is of sound mind. - Agree

That gives an average result of

Economic score: -4.32
Social score: -6.52

If that isn't liberal, you have a very strange definition of liberal.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The problem is your very illiberal position on education. You support something that would result in the gutting and rotting of the public education system, regardless of if you want that to happen, you support the far right's current method to get that to happen.

And note the OVERWHELMING opposition to your position on this forum: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=65161.0

BTW, while opebo's positions on the test (which I think sucks and prefer the Compass so anything involving it is not very convincing to me) would result in a much further left score than your's, you have frequently argued he is not a liberal.

[CPT MikeyMike]

Shouldn't Josh22 qualify for both of these titles?

I concur.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I don't think Opebo is all that liberal.  Sure, he has very revolutionary communist ideas regarding the redistribution of wealth for the working class, but he has shown that he has little concern for the environment, which with his revolutionary ideas, would surely take quite a beating and ultimately result in a reduction of wealth for the masses.

Progressive liberalism today includes the world sustainability.  We can only be as rich as our resources and technology allow us to be and raping and pillaging the earth for short-term gain surely will lead to long term misery as gains and innovation in technology surely will not make up for it.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Opebo isn't liberal I agree.

As for this thread, who cares really?

(I know expect the next two pages to be entirely about me for some reason. Yay!)

[Dr. Cynic]

Opebo isn't a liberal... Just because he's a radical revolutionary, he's not a liberal. No true liberal is as arrogantly callous, or pretentious as Opebo often is.

BRTD, he has one position that is conservative... By your standards. I happen to disagree with his position, but I have my own. I'm relatively conservative when it comes to guns. I'm relatively conservative when it comes to affirmative action. I'm still a liberal. BRTD, your definition of liberal is not only misinformed, but incredibly arrogant and near-sighted.