What poster has moved furthest left and right since coming here?

[Gustaf]

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I never said it was;

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NC-17 Rating anyone?

So yes, you did.

as far as I know and remember I am not an American an NC-17 has great difficulty a release outside of arts cinemas\big city multiplexes; which I think somewhat defeats the purpose of cinema as an art form but anyway.

So? The same applies to non-NC-17 super-indie films, does that make them banned? Lust, Caution, the most recent movie to receive an NC-17, got a wider release than Brick and Donnie Darko ever did. And this isn't always true, considering one of my theaters in my hometown in the middle of North Dakota actually played Showgirls and one of the local rental places is full of them.

For that matter (and this is something you keep ignoring), no movie is ever required to take an NC-17 rating and it is NOT given out by the government.

The liberal position on educationis being for vouchers.

By the European definition, maybe. By the American definition, hell no. The main people supporting them are Christian fundamentalists and anti-public education far right wingers. The voucher plan in Utah was opposed by the few Democrats in the Utah state leg and was pretty much nothing more than a way to get as many kids into Mormon schools as possible.

I'll never accept the idea of equating liberal with left-winged. Saying someone is more liberal for wanting to promote more state regulation stops making sense once you get far enough.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

@Gustaf:
I associate the word liberal with the idea of individualism and development of a human as an individual not for the purposes of society or his parents or for the state. I realize though at some point there needs to be a trade off between the human individual and "the greater good". I just disagree at this point.

(I assume this is the point you are trying to make. And yes having Liberal=left wing is problematic ; though personally I find the whole left-right axis problematic.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Oops, My bad. I guess was influenced by the rants the NC-17 on imdb. Though here I must say that the MPAA is awfully biased against films made in a foreign language; and of course the whole "sex is worse than violence" issue.

I don't know of any NC-17 rated foreign movies that would likely be R if in English, it's just that such movies are more likely to be foreign made. And you can complain about their criteria, but really, they have as much legal status and enforcement power as movie reviews in a magazine do, so is it a big deal?

The MPAA is independant, so is the IFC (Irish Film censor) though iirc government ministers and various political bigwigs do sit on the appeals board (which appeals the censor's decisions) but that is almost never called these days.

No, not at all comparable. Any censorship office that can make legally binding decisions is clearly not completely separate from the government, even if actual politicians don't directly run it, that's like saying the EPA is an agency independent from the government. The MPAA however is not related to the government in any way, it's a completely private organization, and has absolutely no status to make legally binding decisions.

I'll never accept the idea of equating liberal with left-winged. Saying someone is more liberal for wanting to promote more state regulation stops making sense once you get far enough.

*shrugs*, different definitions in different countries, that's the US definition. I'll never say someone is more liberal for supporting something that's primary purpose is to impose religious indoctrination on kids either.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

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Who wants that?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

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Who wants that?

The people backing school vouchers.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

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Who wants that?

The people backing school vouchers.

Oh I know that. I thought you were referring to a poster here. Vouchers though are extremely problematic from my POV.

To be honest as it would obvious be better for us all if the god squad was confined to secluded brainwashing camps "schools" in Rural backwaters in North Dakota or Idaho (or Alberta or even Parts of North Clare for that matter.) - no offense intended to people of ND, ID, AB or Clare.

The best way to fight them though is obviously in the culture arena; which is a problem as the enemy has lots of money. Usually we (and me and you are united on this) don't. Replacing one method of training for another is not an answer.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Hmmm, you appear not to understand the education system or religious status of North Dakota (then again, few Americans do either.). My hometown had 2612 students in the public high schools, 408 in a Catholic high school, 74 in a Seventh Day Adventist high school, and 289 in a fundamentalist Christian private school, also that school covers ALL grades from K-12, not just high school. You can see the percentage in fundamentalist Christian education is quite small.

Willy Woz actually made a valid point about the religiosity of North Dakota vs. the South in one of his trolling threads, proving the old saying about a broken clock to be correct.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Hmmm, you appear not to understand the education system or religious status of North Dakota (then again, few Americans do either.). My hometown had 2612 students in the public high schools, 408 in a Catholic high school, 74 in a Seventh Day Adventist high school, and 289 in a fundamentalist Christian private school, also that school covers ALL grades from K-12, not just high school. You can see the percentage in fundamentalist Christian education is quite small.

Willy Woz actually made a valid point about the religiosity of North Dakota vs. the South in one of his trolling threads, proving the old saying about a broken clock to be correct.

Ahh Analogy BRTD, BRTD I forgot you were from ND anyway. (Tbh, I screwed up original sentence there it should have read "rural backwaters in Idaho or North Dakota...")

Not that I declare to be a great scholar in North Dakota studies.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

No, the rural backwaters aren't where you're likely to find fundamentalist Christians. They mostly live on the outskirts and suburban areas of the larger cities.

That applies to just about everywhere in the US except the south by the way.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

No, the rural backwaters aren't where you're likely to find fundamentalist Christians. They mostly live on the outskirts and suburban areas of the larger cities.

That applies to just about everywhere in the US except the south by the way.

I was kinda imagining that unholy alliance which seems to be emerging between the Black helicopters crowd and christian fundementalism. (Doesn't exist? Christians for Ron Paul beg to differ.)

Of course we are talking about Evangelicals here; funny that given that here too what evangelical (protestants) there are tend to be suburban too. Though this only refers to about a fraction of one percent. Though I do personally know some born agains (who are many things; but never fundies. Once social issues are mentioned these people are usually the first to attack "the church".)

The perception is funny though; the classical view of Fundies which applies tends to be a rural hicks who left school at 8 and got all their real education through the bible and Mamma. Which goes back to the whole the Fundies have the money (and the professional charlatans too.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Your problem is that you're lumping all fundies under one category, or even assuming such people are fundies anyway. You can be a conservative/libertarian Christian and not a fundamentalist.

I doubt you're going to find loads of Ron Paul supporters at a Southern Baptist church or evangelical megachurch.

The important distinction is probably between fundies that simply want the government to not interfere in their religion or impose a secular nature of any type (though this I certainly disagree with in many cases, as it involves homeschooling creationists) and those who actually want the government to implement and enforce the policies of their religion.