is Rudy Giuliani a fascist?
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  is Rudy Giuliani a fascist?
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Question: is Rudy Giuliani a fascist?
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Yes
 
#2
No
 
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Author Topic: is Rudy Giuliani a fascist?  (Read 2230 times)
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BRTD
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« on: December 10, 2007, 02:51:46 AM »

Yes. The 14 Characteristics of Fascism. The ones that apply to him are bolded:

# Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.


# Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.


# Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

# Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.


# Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

# Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

# Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.


# Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

# Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

# Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .


# Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

# Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

# Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.


# Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
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Meeker
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« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2007, 03:07:53 AM »

He tried to cancel or delay the Mayoral election after 9/11 which would've extended his term, so the last one may actually apply as well.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2007, 09:43:29 AM »

He's too much of a wannabe to be an actual fascist.
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Willy Woz
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« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2007, 09:45:30 AM »

He is further to the left than Hillary Clinton.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2007, 09:57:11 AM »

No, not really. Has enough leanings in that general direction to worry me though.


Where be that from? As a classification thingy it's pretty dodgy (frequently misses significant, and disturbing, features of fascist parties and states, while making several basic errors). There are much better ones out there (and dear Rudy still scores disturbingly high on those).
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2007, 10:05:46 AM »

No, not really. Has enough leanings in that general direction to worry me though.


Where be that from? As a classification thingy it's pretty dodgy (frequently misses significant, and disturbing, features of fascist parties and states, while making several basic errors). There are much better ones out there (and dear Rudy still scores disturbingly high on those).

This was the list written by some Political science professor from way back which came to public notice during the last election to prove that "OMG BUSH IS TEH FASCIST!!11111"
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Person Man
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« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2007, 11:42:26 AM »

He's too secular.
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BRTD
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« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2007, 01:14:18 PM »


So? Mussolini was an atheist. Many obviously fascist post-Yugoslavia leaders were ex-communists and atheist/agnostic. Saddam Hussein ran a very secular fascist state. Even Nazi Germany was a secular state. Fascism doesn't have to be religious based.
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Alcon
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« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2007, 01:16:22 PM »


He seems to have a religion of his own sorts.

I agree with Al; in the literal definition, no, but he certainly does have those leanings.
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Ebowed
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« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2007, 02:14:15 PM »

# Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

Why doesn't he fit in this category?  Giuliani is an open sexist.  How many times has that hack committed adultery?  He comes across as a complete womanizer, a total sleazebag.
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BRTD
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« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2007, 02:29:16 PM »

That doesn't necessarily mean his government imposes such policies, but yes, it's also noteworthy.
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Ebowed
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« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2007, 03:08:21 PM »

That doesn't necessarily mean his government imposes such policies, but yes, it's also noteworthy.

His government would impose restrictive policies on gays and abortion, however, which is part of the criteria.
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© tweed
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« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2007, 03:26:07 PM »

he lacks the populist rhetoric necessary to be a doctrinaire fascist.
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Willy Woz
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« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2007, 04:24:01 PM »

# Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

Why doesn't he fit in this category?  Giuliani is an open sexist.  How many times has that hack committed adultery?  He comes across as a complete womanizer, a total sleazebag.

Yes, but he's pro-choice and pro-gay.
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WalterMitty
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« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2007, 04:26:12 PM »

in order to answer the question, i need to know a few things about rudy...

1.  how does he feel about video games?

2.  does he think strip clubs are a bad thing?

3.  does he like suburbs?

and most importantly...

4.  what does he think of a fast food tax?
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Willy Woz
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« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2007, 04:31:32 PM »

in order to answer the question, i need to know a few things about rudy...

1.  how does he feel about video games?

2.  does he think strip clubs are a bad thing?

3.  does he like suburbs?

and most importantly...

4.  what does he think of a fast food tax?

I don't know about video games, I would think he's pretty libertarian on strip club issues, and being the N.Y.C. boy he is, I'm sure he despises suburbs.
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DownWithTheLeft
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« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2007, 06:57:37 PM »

No, what an absurd question
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BRTD
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« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2007, 12:57:51 AM »


He fits the criteria outlined...
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2007, 01:15:44 AM »

No, BRTD is on a lot of issues though.
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they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
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« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2007, 01:17:18 AM »

No, BRTD is on a lot of issues though.

Like?

Which of the above traits apply to me?
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Verily
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« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2007, 01:34:33 AM »

An authoritarian, definitely. A fascist, obviously not. Only Green Party members are fascists.
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