Benazir Bhutto assassinated.
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  Benazir Bhutto assassinated.
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Author Topic: Benazir Bhutto assassinated.  (Read 4285 times)
Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2007, 05:16:26 PM »

People need to remember what country this happend in. Things in Pakistan have a habit of being, how shall we say, linked? It would be very surprising if some form of Islamists weren't involved and it would also be surprising if some elements of the "security" services weren't involved at some level.
Should also be noted that likely collusion by elements (rouge or not) of the "security" services isn't the same thing as Musharraf likely being involved. There's a good chance that he'll be next.
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2007, 06:22:09 PM »

Truly a FF. RIP.

Jesus Christ, though. This is only going to get worse.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2007, 06:51:22 PM »

Ah, the Islamists were so afraid of a woman that they needed two methods of assassination to pull it off.
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The Duke
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« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2007, 06:58:01 PM »

The humanitarian says: It is sad that Bhutto was assasinated, as it is sad almost anytime someone was killed.

The utilitarian says: This event sacrifices one person for the well being of many, and secures the greatest good for the greatest number possible.  It has the potential to create a secular martyr, a symbol that has the power to turn the tid for good agaisnt Islamic radicalism in Pakistan and gives Musharraf a mandate to aggressively confront Al Qaeda and the Taliban.  The brutality of Al Qaeda is laid bare for all to see, and their chances of ever commanding a majority in Pakistan are dead as of right now.  The utilitarian says this isn't a tragedy, it's a turning point.
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Frodo
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« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2007, 07:16:59 PM »

The utilitarian says: This event sacrifices one person for the well being of many, and secures the greatest good for the greatest number possible.  It has the potential to create a secular martyr, a symbol that has the power to turn the tid for good agaisnt Islamic radicalism in Pakistan and gives Musharraf a mandate to aggressively confront Al Qaeda and the Taliban.  The brutality of Al Qaeda is laid bare for all to see, and their chances of ever commanding a majority in Pakistan are dead as of right now.  The utilitarian says this isn't a tragedy, it's a turning point.

If he survives...

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Robespierre's Jaw
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« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2007, 07:20:17 PM »

I wonder who's behind this I wonder? Come on have a guess. RIP.

Well, the conspiracy theorist would probably say that Musharraf was behind it. His main opponent was eliminated and he's got a pretext to declare martial law again. Besides, he now continues to be non-expandable for the United States.

That's exactly who I believe was behind the assassination of Bhutto. Now we wait to see whether Musharraf declares martial law once again.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2007, 07:28:52 PM »


Some of the comments like the above show a lack of knowledge (or perhaps a belief in Bhutto being one of those "lesser of X amount of evils"; one of the reasons like the world is in the state is in is that we can't stop choosing between evils.) Bhutto's government in the early 90s was corrupt beyond any western or even local standard and achieved nothing of legaslative note all the while the events which were to lead to the Military coup in 1999 roared on. Not to mention her role in Pakistani Foreign policy; perhaps slightly more enlighted than some of her predeccesors or successors - but how hard is that?

Despite all this, RIP.

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This is very true. And that last bit is the more worrying.
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Person Man
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« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2007, 08:08:43 PM »

...and what if Musharrif is killed?
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Gabu
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« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2007, 08:16:18 PM »
« Edited: December 27, 2007, 08:27:51 PM by Gabu »


THEN WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE

Seriously, worrying about the unknown when you can do nothing about it never helped anything.  Just wait and see.  And remember what made the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy beat out its competitors.
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angus
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« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2007, 08:27:15 PM »

There's a good chance that he'll be next.

I was walking about the apartment complex tonight.  It's about 24 degrees Fahrenheit and there's at least a foot of snow covering most of the ground.  There's a couple, about four doors down, from Pakistan.  Physicians.  Well, she's a full-time mama, and hasn't practiced since her youngest, Ali, was born, but he still has a day job at a clinic a few miles away.  But they used to both work at a hospital in New Jersey.  Nice folks.  I first met them at the Iowa Department of Motor Vehicles in July, back when we were both applying for Iowa drivers licenses.  (In the USA, it is the custom to acquire a new drivers license within 30 days of moving into a new state.  One is meant to surrender his out-of-state license, pay a small fee, and obtain a new one.  I usually don't bother, and just wait till my old one expires, but in Iowa the license is very cheap--20 dollars for five years--and the caucus is closed, so I saw it as a chance to register to vote as well as get a cheap in-state license.)  Anyway, they were there, and I recognized them from my neighborhood so I walked over and started to chat.  The Mrs. Dr. Paki introduced me to her husband and two sons, Ali and Muhammed (no, I'm not making that up, their children were actually named Ali and Muhammed), and so I introduced her family to my wife.  Later, we would sometimes see them frolicking about here.  Riding their scooters or playing at the pool.  (I'm dying to see her in a bikini since she seems so well-built under that soft cotton chiffon garments, but she always covers her lovely brown skin, even on warm days when she's lounging at the pool.)  Not many non-WASPs in Cedar Falls, as you might imagine, so I always spot them immediately when they're outside.   Tonight there were out building snowmen.  I spoke to her about the assassination.  Expressed my condolences and asked whether she thought Mushi had a hand in it.  She laughed and said, "No, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was next."  When I asked her to elaborate she only suggested what you did, vaguely and with some implied resignation to the fact that I probably wouldn't understand short of some lengthy explanation. 

I was reminded of her comment when I read your post.
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Flying Dog
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« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2007, 08:37:28 PM »

The outcome largely depends on how Bhutto's supporters react to her death. If early indications prevail, it won't be good. There is riots in all of Pakistan's major cities by her supporters and dozens have already been killed. Sharif, the only person who could stop them isn't helping, he says that he will boycott the elections and called revenge on Pakistan's rulers (Musharrif). This is going to get ugly. 
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2007, 09:04:01 PM »

Ah, whatever. I recall hearing somewhere that Nawaz Sharif, who refuses to negotiate with Musharraf (Not Musharrif. Get it straight, guys!), is much more popular than Bhutto, whose Urdu isn't great anyway.

I'm not sure Bhutto can even be classed as an FF; she's (to me) just a product of those political families which have dominated politics in South Asia since independence. You have the Nehru/Gandhi family in India, the Bhutto family in Pakistan, and the Zia and Mujib families in Bangladesh.

Plus what Gully Foyle said.
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MODU
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« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2007, 09:23:23 PM »

I cannot say that nobody saw it coming, but still, the world lost a great person today.

She saw it coming, as did many people involved.
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Boris
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« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2007, 10:44:24 PM »


That's exactly what I was getting at. I'm cognizant of the corruption charges brought against Bhutto both domestically and abroad and I'm not naive enough to think that a hypothetical PPP victory in the upcoming election would bring around radical overnight transformation to the Pakistani government. Nevertheless, such a situation would have been much, much more favorable than the status-quo.

 
The U.S. has to have some sort of contingency plan to contend with such a situation. I'd guess that contingency plan involves ascertaining the status of the Pakistani nuclear arsenal.
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Sensei
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« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2007, 10:56:26 PM »

I cannot say that nobody saw it coming, but still, the world lost a great person today.

She saw it coming, as did many people involved.
That's what I said.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2007, 09:57:49 AM »

Ah, whatever. I recall hearing somewhere that Nawaz Sharif, who refuses to negotiate with Musharraf (Not Musharrif. Get it straight, guys!), is much more popular than Bhutto, whose Urdu isn't great anyway.

The only person in Pakistan who thinks that Sharif is more popular than Bhutto (was) is Sharif himself.

Slight exaggeration.
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MODU
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« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2007, 11:30:24 AM »

I cannot say that nobody saw it coming, but still, the world lost a great person today.

She saw it coming, as did many people involved.
That's what I said.

Sorry.  Double-negatives in a sentence can be confusing sometimes.  Tongue
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Democratic Hawk
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« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2007, 12:01:24 PM »

RIP
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Democratic Hawk
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« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2007, 01:05:43 PM »

Benazir Bhutto's 19 year-old son, Bilawal Bhutto, has succeeded her as Chairman of the Pakistan People's Party, with his father, Asif Ali Zardari, as Co-Chairman

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7164968.stm

The PPP wishes the parliamentary elections, scheduled for January 8th, to go ahead as planned

Dave
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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2007, 02:25:53 PM »

Does that mean he could become PM?
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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2007, 02:27:07 PM »

Does that mean he could become PM?

Edit: Never mind, article states otherwise. Well, he's going to be popular at Oxford.
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Democratic Hawk
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« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2007, 03:11:00 PM »


No. At 19, Bilawal is legally too young to stand for parliament. Seemingly, for now, he's but a ceremonial figurehead of the PPP while he continues his studies at Oxford

It would seem that Benazir's will had named her husband Asif Ali Zardari to succeed her as Chairman, but he declined it in favour of their son. Zardari will serve as Co-Chairman until such time as Bilawal is ready to assume full control

Dave
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