Over 600,000 jobs created in July alone!

[JNB]

 I am sick of it, very sick of it. While my politics as evidence by my political compass ratings may be unique, I still identify a conservative, but I am disgusted to the point of being ill at how many so called conservatives just are parrots, just zombies and do not think for themselves, they have become the "conservative" equivlent of soccer moms.

[classical liberal]

the "conservative" equivlent of soccer moms.

NASCAR Dad's?

[millwx]

 All the more reason why I will wash my hands of the GOP untill the neo-cons are ejected.

Amen.  I've stopped even arguing on most of these threads.  As a scientist, I'm well aware of how some of these statistics can be distorted.  While both sides do it, the neo-cons and their ilk have raised it to an art form.  I won't even waste my time and energy "debating" them.  To them, politics comes first, facts come second (or third, or fourth).  I'm not trying to sound holier than thou... there are plenty of issues on which the "facts" are subjective/fuzzy/etc and, so, two reasonably people can have differing opinions.  That's not what I'm referring to.

BTW, my political compass scores are also very close to zero and zero... a little towards the negative side on the social scale.

[muon2]

Amen.  I've stopped even arguing on most of these threads.  As a scientist, I'm well aware of how some of these statistics can be distorted.  While both sides do it, the neo-cons and their ilk have raised it to an art form.  I won't even waste my time and energy "debating" them.  To them, politics comes first, facts come second (or third, or fourth).  I'm not trying to sound holier than thou... there are plenty of issues on which the "facts" are subjective/fuzzy/etc and, so, two reasonably people can have differing opinions.  That's not what I'm referring to.

I think that is exactly the right attitude. One should try to drill into the statistics spread about willy-nilly and ask about the sample and the questions they truly test. In any field, science or politics, the form of the question tested is critical to the statistical result.

BTW, what is your field?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

 I think this thread shows how so called conservatives react to talking points every bit as much as they blame liberals for,  much like the expected 15 point post conventyion bounce for Kerry, those expectations source from a low level Bush campaign offical. It has become monkey see, monkey do.

  All the more reason why I will wash my hands of the GOP untill the neo-cons are ejected.

The average convention bounce for both incumbent and challenger is 6 points.

http://www.gallup.com/content/login.aspx?ci=2704

[A18]

This is hilarious. These are the people STILL talking about WMDs, even though France, Russia, the UN, and Clinton all said the same thing? We know Hussein had WMD programs, including an active nuclear program, but he was 'no threat.' Some people are still trying to say Iraq had no ties to terrorists!

When facts are the enemy's talking points, I guess that says something about your side of the argument.

[??????????]

This is hilarious. These are the people STILL talking about WMDs, even though France, Russia, the UN, and Clinton all said the same thing? We know Hussein had WMD programs, including an active nuclear program, but he was 'no threat.' Some people are still trying to say Iraq had no ties to terrorists!

When facts are the enemy's talking points, I guess that says something about your side of the argument.

They won't listen. Believe me. Every other nation around the world has terrorist cells but somehow Iraq is exempt.

[MN-Troy]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You said a mouthful in that one paragraph, but I think I understand what you are saying. The U.S. trade deficit combined with foreign countries or entities accumulating dollars has led eventually for the demand for the dollar to drop against the Euro. I hope I got that correct.

The fall of the dollar against the Euro I would say was just a corrective response by the market after the dollar was priced too high. And this devaluation of the dollar appeared not be caused by the foreign countries lack of demand for the dollar, but rather, as it seems, to be facilitated by the lack private foreign investment. Addition to that, you may recall early this year that the U.S. current account deficit decreased for a slight time because net foreign capital decreased. But in June the dollar?s drop bottomed out and it has been a steady climb against the Euro along with a steady increase of the trade deficit (increase of foreign capital coming into this country.) has led the economy to flourish.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Yes the situation could unravel, although I would say the likely occurrence of that happening is unlikely give the circumstances that Asian and European countries are more dependent on exports to grow their economies. China and Japan with current account surpluses are more than happy to invest capital into the U.S., and for the last 30 years have been given a great return on their money. As long as the U.S. keeps taxes and regulation low and U.S. continues to produce, the country?s current account deficit can be managed. Europe needs a relative strong dollar to have their exports remain cheap aboard, and the U.S. dollar has been on a steady upward climb against the Euro for the last two months.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I do not know if you are advocating a return to the gold standard, but it appears of what you have written it appears to be so.

The great depression seemed to be proliferating while the U.S. was under the gold standard because the government had to balance the budget to avoid a run on the dollar. This is the inherent weakness of the gold standard because any decline of the dollar would have to be offset by raising interest rates to keep the dollar at a fixed rate on par with gold.

A floating exchange rate compared to a fixed exchange is more preferable because a country can address domestic contention without the worrisome of a potential run on the currency.


I agree with the Libertarian that less government intrusion into the economy, the better the country is off in the long run. However I don?t agree with the stance of returning to the gold standard.

[MarkDel]

 All the more reason why I will wash my hands of the GOP untill the neo-cons are ejected.

Amen.  I've stopped even arguing on most of these threads.  As a scientist, I'm well aware of how some of these statistics can be distorted.  While both sides do it, the neo-cons and their ilk have raised it to an art form.  I won't even waste my time and energy "debating" them.  To them, politics comes first, facts come second (or third, or fourth).  I'm not trying to sound holier than thou... there are plenty of issues on which the "facts" are subjective/fuzzy/etc and, so, two reasonably people can have differing opinions.  That's not what I'm referring to.

BTW, my political compass scores are also very close to zero and zero... a little towards the negative side on the social scale.

Millwx,

That is absolute garbage. I am definitely a neo-conservative and do I need to go pull up past threads here where YOU praised MY objectivity and ability to seperate fact from opinion???

[classical liberal]

 All the more reason why I will wash my hands of the GOP untill the neo-cons are ejected.

Amen.  I've stopped even arguing on most of these threads.  As a scientist, I'm well aware of how some of these statistics can be distorted.  While both sides do it, the neo-cons and their ilk have raised it to an art form.  I won't even waste my time and energy "debating" them.  To them, politics comes first, facts come second (or third, or fourth).  I'm not trying to sound holier than thou... there are plenty of issues on which the "facts" are subjective/fuzzy/etc and, so, two reasonably people can have differing opinions.  That's not what I'm referring to.

BTW, my political compass scores are also very close to zero and zero... a little towards the negative side on the social scale.

Millwx,

That is absolute garbage. I am definitely a neo-conservative and do I need to go pull up past threads here where YOU praised MY objectivity and ability to seperate fact from opinion???

I think that he was referring to the garden variety, Hannity/Limbaugh talking poiny spewing "neo-conservative".

You are not one of Them; you are an actual Neo-Conservative who can logically derive the set of ideals that media hacks corrupt into convoluted talking points.

[khirkhib]

This is hilarious. These are the people STILL talking about WMDs, even though France, Russia, the UN, and Clinton all said the same thing? We know Hussein had WMD programs, including an active nuclear program, but he was 'no threat.' Some people are still trying to say Iraq had no ties to terrorists!

When facts are the enemy's talking points, I guess that says something about your side of the argument.

They won't listen. Believe me. Every other nation around the world has terrorist cells but somehow Iraq is exempt.

So we are supposed to invade every country that has terrorists in it.  I think the lie that Cheney was trying to sell the American people was not that their were or were not terrorists in Iraq but that the Iraqui government was coordinating with Al Queda and Usama Bin Laden and was linked to the 9/11 bombings.  That is what the lie was.

But lets break away from that StatesRights.  I have a question for you; Do you think that their are more or less terrorists in the world now as opposed to right before 9/11.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

This is hilarious. These are the people STILL talking about WMDs, even though France, Russia, the UN, and Clinton all said the same thing? We know Hussein had WMD programs, including an active nuclear program, but he was 'no threat.' Some people are still trying to say Iraq had no ties to terrorists!

When facts are the enemy's talking points, I guess that says something about your side of the argument.

They won't listen. Believe me. Every other nation around the world has terrorist cells but somehow Iraq is exempt.

So we are supposed to invade every country that has terrorists in it.  I think the lie that Cheney was trying to sell the American people was not that their were or were not terrorists in Iraq but that the Iraqui government was coordinating with Al Queda and Usama Bin Laden and was linked to the 9/11 bombings.  That is what the lie was.

But lets break away from that StatesRights.  I have a question for you; Do you think that their are more or less terrorists in the world now as opposed to right before 9/11.

Time to invade ourselves.

[millwx]

BTW, what is your field?

muon2, I'm a meteorologist.  Specifically, I do data research and analysis on satellite data for a major defense contractor.  I also do research to operations "technology transfer" (as they like to call it).  I've risen through the ranks somewhat as well, so I'm also mid-level manager... but keep my feet in the technical work.

[A18]

More terrorism. No Hussein to give them nuclear weapons (which would make this a war for our very survival), no Taliban to aid them.

[Gustaf]

More terrorism. No Hussein to give them nuclear weapons (which would make this a war for our very survival), no Taliban to aid them.

Eh...Saddam Hussein did not have nuclear weapons. It's likely that he had teh capacity to one day get them, but he did not have it befire the war. Did you ever contemplate the fact that he might have wanted to use them if he did?

The ISraelis took care of that back in 1983 (I think it was that year, anyway).

[MODU]

I think the lie that Cheney was trying to sell the American people was not that their were or were not terrorists in Iraq but that the Iraqui government was coordinating with Al Queda and Usama Bin Laden and was linked to the 9/11 bombings.  That is what the lie was.

The administration didn't state Iraq was involved with 9/11.  That is just a fantasy created by the media.  

[johngalt1234]

MN-Troy

Thank you for the well thought out response to my posting.

I will admit I am no great prognosticator as to what will happen but here is the way I see it...

You cannot have trade deficits the size of $ 500 billion going on forever.  China and Japan with whom we have huge trade imbalances with actually intervene in the currency markets to peg their currency at a favorable rate to the dollar. They also buy our debt which keeps the dollar from declining too much too rapidly.

We all agree that the world economy is very intricately intertwined, and if one part gets affected the contagion spreads globally.  

If the trade imbalance were to correct, meaning of a lack of consumer demand in the US..China would have to find a way to consume its production. Given their population size that shouldnt be a problem. Japan will train their export machine to China as well. At that point there is no need for them to prop up the dollar. You can come to your own conclusions as to what will happen there.

Trade imbalances cannot last forever.  All we are doing is printing dollars and buying goods. As long as the dollar remains the defacto trading medium, because we continue to run these deficits people will be happy to hoard their dollars and buy our debt.  The trade in oil is huge and it is primarily conducted in dollars. With the price of oil at 44 a barrel....you are effectively paying $35 because the dollar had declined by that much. There was talk about Saddam actually wanting to sell his oil in Euros which could have caused a rapid unwinding of the dollar strength. That could have been one of the reasons we went into Iraq.

Why would Oil exporting nations continue to export oil in dollars when the dollar continues to fall? else we are going to see a continued rise in the price of oil to match the fall in the Dollar.
Either situation is not going to be good...

FWIW on friday with the weak unemployment report....we had a decline in the dollar. It could be the start of a new trend of a lower dollar....stay tuned...

[MODU]

psst . . . weak employment report, not unemployment.  

[??????????]

This is hilarious. These are the people STILL talking about WMDs, even though France, Russia, the UN, and Clinton all said the same thing? We know Hussein had WMD programs, including an active nuclear program, but he was 'no threat.' Some people are still trying to say Iraq had no ties to terrorists!

When facts are the enemy's talking points, I guess that says something about your side of the argument.

They won't listen. Believe me. Every other nation around the world has terrorist cells but somehow Iraq is exempt.

But lets break away from that StatesRights.  I have a question for you; Do you think that their are more or less terrorists in the world now as opposed to right before 9/11.

Yes of course their are. BUT they are being destroyed. Did the German army grow in the early 1940s as a result of allied attacks against them? Most enemies become more stuant and aggressive as a result of attacks by their foes.

[A18]

I didn't say Hussein had nuclear weapons, but he had an active nuclear program. No one ever thought that Saddam already had the capacity to blow up our cities, but we weren't going to wait a few years to find out. Couple that with chemical and biological weapons, which we thought he had stockpiles of, and that's a pretty big threat.

To prevent nuclear warfare, we should error on the side of caution. I don't know what good it'd do to bring our 1,000 soldiers back to life just so that millions more could die in New York City.

[muon2]

BTW, what is your field?

muon2, I'm a meteorologist.  Specifically, I do data research and analysis on satellite data for a major defense contractor.  I also do research to operations "technology transfer" (as they like to call it).  I've risen through the ranks somewhat as well, so I'm also mid-level manager... but keep my feet in the technical work.

Thanks, it sounds interesting, and it gives me another example to tell my students in that field when they ask me about careers.

[The Duke]

 All the more reason why I will wash my hands of the GOP untill the neo-cons are ejected.

Amen.  I've stopped even arguing on most of these threads.  As a scientist, I'm well aware of how some of these statistics can be distorted.  While both sides do it, the neo-cons and their ilk have raised it to an art form.  I won't even waste my time and energy "debating" them.  To them, politics comes first, facts come second (or third, or fourth).  I'm not trying to sound holier than thou... there are plenty of issues on which the "facts" are subjective/fuzzy/etc and, so, two reasonably people can have differing opinions.  That's not what I'm referring to.

BTW, my political compass scores are also very close to zero and zero... a little towards the negative side on the social scale.

Millwx,

That is absolute garbage. I am definitely a neo-conservative and do I need to go pull up past threads here where YOU praised MY objectivity and ability to seperate fact from opinion???

I think that he was referring to the garden variety, Hannity/Limbaugh talking poiny spewing "neo-conservative".

You are not one of Them; you are an actual Neo-Conservative who can logically derive the set of ideals that media hacks corrupt into convoluted talking points.

Neither Hannity nor Limbaugh are neocons.  Just regular old conservatives.

[johngalt1234]

How did the talk about job creation turn to discussing Neo-conservatism.

Dont we all love our labels, Liberal, conservative, Neo con etc...but the one label that evades all of us is the one of realist.
I try to be one but it isnt easy

Reality is we have a bad choice in Kerry and Bush. Can we do something about it....Vote third party.

Worried about wasting your vote? you are wasting it now by voting for Bush or Kerry. Nothing is gonna change...all you will get is rhetoric.

Hey but there might be some over here that say they like things the way they are...I would call them delusional. but then I maybe delusional too...because if all the delusional choose the next president...I will be subject to their delusional thoughts in having a commander in chief who has been elected by them

[khirkhib]

Existential Crisis?  You can only get so jaded up to a point before you shrivil up and die! Be optimistic, maybe we can make the world better and if we can't well than wasn't it a worthy goal trying.