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Author Topic: The Atlasia Concealed Firearm Act of 2004  (Read 9907 times)
ilikeverin
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« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2004, 01:59:03 pm »
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Criminals don't care about the 10-20-Life rule.  If they're gonna kill someone, they will.  Making concealed guns legal for them is only going to drive up the crime rate.  I will absolutely vote no on this bill.

Exactly.  If you're going to kill someone, you won't stop to think about what will happen after you kill them.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2004, 03:22:06 pm »
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Criminals don't care about the 10-20-Life rule.  If they're gonna kill someone, they will.  Making concealed guns legal for them is only going to drive up the crime rate.  I will absolutely vote no on this bill.

Then why has crime dropped over 5% in Florida since the concealed weapons law was passed here in Florida?
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MHS2002
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« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2004, 03:31:10 pm »
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If a criminal is going to kill someone, they're going to find a gun anyway, no gun control law will stop that. StatesRights' bill allows law-abiding citizens to defend themselves. I wholeheartedly support this bill.
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Nation
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« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2004, 06:00:06 pm »
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I see no logical flaws to this bill, but I will play devil's advocate, and ask the bill's sponsor, Mr. Rights, some real examples of how a concealed handgun has helped save lives, and any opponents of this bill to provide examples where having a concealed handgun has resulted in the injury or death of innocents. After all, opposition to this bill is useless unless you have a significant reason to back it up.

I think of something like this a little bit like national security; we can wait until the problem comes to us, when it's too late, or we can take action NOW and make an attempt to prevent an accdient, and that is why I will vote yes on this bill.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2004, 06:04:33 pm »
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Criminals don't care about the 10-20-Life rule.  If they're gonna kill someone, they will.  Making concealed guns legal for them is only going to drive up the crime rate.  I will absolutely vote no on this bill.

Then why has crime dropped over 5% in Florida since the concealed weapons law was passed here in Florida?

Because crime has been falling nationwide.  It's part of a trend Smiley
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StatesRights
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« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2004, 06:23:52 pm »
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Nation as per your request.

http://www.sacsconsulting.com/ccw_RealStories.htm

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcInfoBase.asp?CatID=43

Loads of stories, enjoy! Smiley
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Nation
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« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2004, 06:29:22 pm »
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Criminals don't care about the 10-20-Life rule.  If they're gonna kill someone, they will.  Making concealed guns legal for them is only going to drive up the crime rate.  I will absolutely vote no on this bill.

Then why has crime dropped over 5% in Florida since the concealed weapons law was passed here in Florida?

Because crime has been falling nationwide.  It's part of a trend Smiley

Crime falls for a REASON, Governor.
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Nation
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« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2004, 06:29:41 pm »
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Ah, thank you Senator.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2004, 08:18:23 pm »
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Criminals don't care about the 10-20-Life rule.  If they're gonna kill someone, they will.  Making concealed guns legal for them is only going to drive up the crime rate.  I will absolutely vote no on this bill.

Then why has crime dropped over 5% in Florida since the concealed weapons law was passed here in Florida?

Because crime has been falling nationwide.  It's part of a trend Smiley

Crime falls for a REASON, Governor.

Yes, a higher standard of living, more education, more gun control... then again, I have no clue why crime was so high during the Reagan and Bush years, before crime started decreasing.

Finally, I bet Florida's crime decreased because they've gotten a higher standard of living lately, and have been getting way more prosperous Smiley
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Harry
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« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2004, 08:21:36 pm »
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crime rates fluctuate . . . it's not gonna be the exact same every year
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Nation
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« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2004, 08:22:00 pm »
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Criminals don't care about the 10-20-Life rule.  If they're gonna kill someone, they will.  Making concealed guns legal for them is only going to drive up the crime rate.  I will absolutely vote no on this bill.

Then why has crime dropped over 5% in Florida since the concealed weapons law was passed here in Florida?

Because crime has been falling nationwide.  It's part of a trend Smiley

Crime falls for a REASON, Governor.

Yes, a higher standard of living, more education, more gun control... then again, I have no clue why crime was so high during the Reagan and Bush years, before crime started decreasing.

Finally, I bet Florida's crime decreased because they've gotten a higher standard of living lately, and have been getting way more prosperous Smiley

What areas have gotten a higher standard of living, and where is most of the crime occurring? What evidence do you have that your general statements like "more education" and "more gun control" have been the cause of lesser crime?

Second, I would appreciate it if you (or any Senators who are against this act) could provide some examples like Senator StatesRights did with his position, of how concealed handguns will cause more problems then they will solve?
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« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2004, 08:26:25 pm »
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Would assault weapons be excluded as concealed weapons?

The AK-47 carries a 7.62mm round.  The M-16 carries a 5.56mm round.  Both of these are under the 9mm limit.

Furthermore, many police officers carry 10mm handguns instead of 9mm.  They'd be excluded from carrying their weapons while off-duty.

If assault weapons are not excluded, I as Secretary of Defense and Security must inform the Senate that this will make Homeland Security next to impossible.

Any terrorist can get a permit as long as he has no criminal record, put a Kalishnikov in a backpack, show up in a public place, has hose a crowd.
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Nation
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« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2004, 08:36:25 pm »
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To Mr. Ford:

Wouldn't a terrorrist be able to get an AK-47 whether they were legal or not?
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JohnD.Ford
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« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2004, 08:38:46 pm »
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Yes, but the fact that they would be able to legally carry one around is dangerous.  If a cop stops someone with an AK-47 in their possession, they can be arrested.  If they have a permit to carry the weapon, though, they can continue along and the cops can't stop them. Possession would be legal, and we'd have no recourse to arrest such a person until they have actually committed a terrorist act.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2004, 08:40:14 pm »
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To Mr. Ford:

Wouldn't a terrorrist be able to get an AK-47 whether they were legal or not?

Not if we make sale/importation of such weapons illegal except for the military in any and all circumstances, not to mention pressuring all other countries to do such Cheesy

Just kidding.
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TexasGurl
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« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2004, 08:41:31 pm »
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The wording says HANDGUN NO LARGER THAN 9mm.
an AK-47 is a rifle.
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JohnD.Ford
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« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2004, 08:42:16 pm »
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The wording says HANDGUN NO LARGER THAN 9mm.
an AK-47 is a rifle.


Thank you Senator, my concerns are addressed.  I withdraw my complaints.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2004, 08:42:36 pm by John Ford »Logged

Shut you hole... Conservatism is dead. I hope I get to see your head paraded on a pike with it.
Nation
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« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2004, 08:46:59 pm »
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Yes, but the fact that they would be able to legally carry one around is dangerous.  If a cop stops someone with an AK-47 in their possession, they can be arrested.  If they have a permit to carry the weapon, though, they can continue along and the cops can't stop them. Possession would be legal, and we'd have no recourse to arrest such a person until they have actually committed a terrorist act.

Good points. Yes, I suppose excluding assault weapons may be a good idea then. But Texasgurl already addressed the problems, there we go.
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Ernest
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« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2004, 09:18:33 pm »
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The act as currently written would allow for people to carry concealled machine pistols such as the TEC-9.  Whether you think that is a good thing, I'll leave to the Senate to decide.
You may wish to look at 18 USC Sec. 921 for a laundry list of definitions as used in federal law when it comes to firearms.
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hughento
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« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2004, 01:04:16 am »
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There is absolutely no need for concealed guns. Maybe there is a need for farmers to have guns. Yes, there is a need for police and soldiers to have them-including concealed ones. But there is no need for you, or me, or anyone else to have a gun-especially a concealed one-especially if we live inurban or suburban or even xurban areas. I am against this bill as it stands.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2004, 01:06:17 am by hughento »Logged

StevenNick
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« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2004, 01:48:58 am »
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Criminals don't care about the 10-20-Life rule.  If they're gonna kill someone, they will.

Exactly.  That's why ordinary citizens need to be allowed to carry firearms to protect themselves from those criminals who would do them harm.
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2004, 07:21:14 am »

So far it seems that it's 3-3 with 1 undecided.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2004, 07:49:54 am »

I will sign this and encourages the senate to pass it.
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Harry
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« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2004, 09:08:23 am »
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I do not like the idea of knowing that the guy standing next to me may legally have a concealed gun.  This bill is going to put more guns on the streets.
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TexasGurl
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« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2004, 10:28:54 am »
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This is a good bill and would receive a yes vote from me.
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