The Atlasia Concealed Firearm Act of 2004

[King]

hmmm, the Constitution says nothing about a tie...we should amend it to allow VPs to vote if there is a tie...

[12th Doctor]

Because 5 Senators have voted against this bill, the most possible yeas in can get is 5.
so this bill FAILS

Wrong, Senator.  If you had acctually cared about your job as VP while you had it, then you would know that I too get a vote to break a tie.  Geez, kids these days.

[12th Doctor]

C-Span replays clips of my impassioned speech.

I strongly urge all remaining Senators to vote Yea on this bill.  We must afford all citizens, the right to protect themselves.  Denying law abiding citizens the right to self-defense is a terrible reflection of the priorities of this governing body.  Criminals will not abide by the law, in contrary to what these foolish utopians think.  They will continue to carry fire-arms regardless of what any governing athority has to say.  Denying this right to scared, helpless citizens is not only foolish and idiotic, but dangerous.  How will any member of this governing body feel it a woman in your district is killed or raped by some sedistic stalker, simply because she was denied the right to carry a firearm?  

I caution that we not let others fall prey to the foolish, utopian, and down right stubernly idiotic whims of those who oppose this legislation.

I yeild back the floor.

[JohnFKennedy]

Because 5 Senators have voted against this bill, the most possible yeas in can get is 5.
so this bill FAILS

Hypothetically, couldn't the remaining five vote 'yea' and the VP break the tie?  I don't recall off the top of my head if that privilege belongs to the Atlas VP.

Oh, d'oh!  Shut up, Niles!!

Indeed you are correct Niles, if we have a five-five tie then the Vice President must cast the deciding vote so this is yet to fail.

Super, for the record if you wish, my reason for voting against this was that I don't see much of a point of it, on private property this law is not binding according to its author and it does not apply to government buildings. Also I think this should be a regional issue rather than a Federal issue. If this merely applied to Federal property it would have my support, but it doesn't, it in fact excludes it.

Anyway, I just thought I should justify my vote.

[Akno21]

I'll justify my vote too. I believe this bill would put more guns on the street and that leads to the death of innocent people.

[12th Doctor]

I'll justify my vote too. I believe this bill would put more guns on the street and that leads to the death of innocent people.

And how, exactly, Senator, will this stoping this prevent criminals from aquirering firearms?

[JohnFKennedy]

Super, please log into AIM.

[Akno21]

I'll justify my vote too. I believe this bill would put more guns on the street and that leads to the death of innocent people.

And how, exactly, Senator, will this stoping this prevent criminals from aquirering firearms?

Mr. Vice President, when someone purchases a firearm, you have no way of knowing what their intentions are.

If you allow someone to legally walk down the street carrying a firearm, who knows what kind of mental health they may be in. They may be drunk, in which case they could accidently shoot someone. It is my personal belief that more guns don't make people safer. In fact, although I see no problem to allowing people to have firearms in their own homes, it should be noted that when people shoot an "intruder" they are more likely to shoot their spouse going to the bathroom than they are to stop an intruder. It is my personal belief that more guns in public places do not make us safer. You may disagree with that, and I respect your right to.

[TexasGurl]

So was this bill defeated?

[JohnFKennedy]

So was this bill defeated?

Nope, we have five against to two in favour.

[TexasGurl]

So was this bill defeated?

Nope, we have five against to two in favour.

thanx.

[12th Doctor]

I'll justify my vote too. I believe this bill would put more guns on the street and that leads to the death of innocent people.

And how, exactly, Senator, will this stoping this prevent criminals from aquirering firearms?

Mr. Vice President, when someone purchases a firearm, you have no way of knowing what their intentions are.

If you allow someone to legally walk down the street carrying a firearm, who knows what kind of mental health they may be in. They may be drunk, in which case they could accidently shoot someone. It is my personal belief that more guns don't make people safer. In fact, although I see no problem to allowing people to have firearms in their own homes, it should be noted that when people shoot an "intruder" they are more likely to shoot their spouse going to the bathroom than they are to stop an intruder. It is my personal belief that more guns in public places do not make us safer. You may disagree with that, and I respect your right to.

Real cirminals don't purchase firearms over the counter.  If I wanted to I could leave my appartment right now, head down five blocks and buy a gun for $50 from someone on the street.  That's how real criminals get their weapons.  They aren't going to try to get a concealed carry permit, they are just going to carry the damn thing.  

Are you really so foolish that you honestly believe that a criminal who would commit such a crime will obey the law and not carry a concealed firearm?

Would it not make more sense to grant citizens the right to conceal arms for their own personal protection?

And personally, Senator, I believe that you would be whistling a different tune it someone was stalking your sister or your daughter, or your wife.

[Akno21]

I'll justify my vote too. I believe this bill would put more guns on the street and that leads to the death of innocent people.

And how, exactly, Senator, will this stoping this prevent criminals from aquirering firearms?

Mr. Vice President, when someone purchases a firearm, you have no way of knowing what their intentions are.

If you allow someone to legally walk down the street carrying a firearm, who knows what kind of mental health they may be in. They may be drunk, in which case they could accidently shoot someone. It is my personal belief that more guns don't make people safer. In fact, although I see no problem to allowing people to have firearms in their own homes, it should be noted that when people shoot an "intruder" they are more likely to shoot their spouse going to the bathroom than they are to stop an intruder. It is my personal belief that more guns in public places do not make us safer. You may disagree with that, and I respect your right to.

Real cirminals don't purchase firearms over the counter.  If I wanted to I could leave my appartment right now, head down five blocks and buy a gun for $50 from someone on the street.  That's how real criminals get their weapons.  They aren't going to try to get a concealed carry permit, they are just going to carry the damn thing.  Are you really so foolish that you honestly believe that a criminal who would commit such a crime will obey the law and not carry a concealed firearm?

Would it not make more sense to grant citizens the right to conceal arms for their own personal protection?

If someone walks up to you on a street and points a gun at your head, having a gun yourself wouldn't help you. The criminal would see you reaching into your coat pocket, and he'd kill you right then.

What we need is to have more background checks, and make it harder for criminals to acquire guns, legally or not. That includes increasing funding for police and law enforcement officals. Every gun a criminal gets was gotten from somewhere, we need to make it harder for a gun to pass into a criminals hands. Having a gun yourself doesn't ensure your safety.

[Niles Caulder]

Real cirminals don't purchase firearms over the counter.  If I wanted to I could leave my appartment right now, head down five blocks and buy a gun for $50 from someone on the street.  That's how real criminals get their weapons.  They aren't going to try to get a concealed carry permit, they are just going to carry the damn thing.  

Are you really so foolish that you honestly believe that a criminal who would commit such a crime will obey the law and not carry a concealed firearm?

Would it not make more sense to grant citizens the right to conceal arms for their own personal protection?

And personally, Senator, I believe that you would be whistling a different tune it someone was stalking your sister or your daughter, or your wife.

Mr. Vice President, that is EXACTLY how criminals buy firearms.  Where did the street vendor buy his stock?--The new stuff is from the stores and from the states where enforcement is lax or non-existant.  As any system of owner registration creating any accountability is a joke, there's a business tier of middlemen "collectors" who buy legally and sell illegally without the first worry of getting caught.  They are not the violent offenders, but they are still "real criminals."

This is relevent to the issue to concealed firearms, in that passing this legislation without first plugging the leaks in accountability of gun owners does create exactly the situation opponants of this legislation state: an increase of guns into the population pool--on both sides of the law.

[Harry]

Hmmm, my bad, the bill isn't dead yet.  But, Mr. VP, I DID care about my job as VP, yet there was NO senate when I was VP, therefore I haven't had *all the experience* you've had.

[12th Doctor]

Hmmm, my bad, the bill isn't dead yet.  But, Mr. VP, I DID care about my job as VP, yet there was NO senate when I was VP, therefore I haven't had *all the experience* you've had.

I know Harry, I'm just playing partisan.  

[12th Doctor]

I'll justify my vote too. I believe this bill would put more guns on the street and that leads to the death of innocent people.

And how, exactly, Senator, will this stoping this prevent criminals from aquirering firearms?

Mr. Vice President, when someone purchases a firearm, you have no way of knowing what their intentions are.

If you allow someone to legally walk down the street carrying a firearm, who knows what kind of mental health they may be in. They may be drunk, in which case they could accidently shoot someone. It is my personal belief that more guns don't make people safer. In fact, although I see no problem to allowing people to have firearms in their own homes, it should be noted that when people shoot an "intruder" they are more likely to shoot their spouse going to the bathroom than they are to stop an intruder. It is my personal belief that more guns in public places do not make us safer. You may disagree with that, and I respect your right to.

Real cirminals don't purchase firearms over the counter.  If I wanted to I could leave my appartment right now, head down five blocks and buy a gun for $50 from someone on the street.  That's how real criminals get their weapons.  They aren't going to try to get a concealed carry permit, they are just going to carry the damn thing.  Are you really so foolish that you honestly believe that a criminal who would commit such a crime will obey the law and not carry a concealed firearm?

Would it not make more sense to grant citizens the right to conceal arms for their own personal protection?

If someone walks up to you on a street and points a gun at your head, having a gun yourself wouldn't help you. The criminal would see you reaching into your coat pocket, and he'd kill you right then.

What we need is to have more background checks, and make it harder for criminals to acquire guns, legally or not. That includes increasing funding for police and law enforcement officals. Every gun a criminal gets was gotten from somewhere, we need to make it harder for a gun to pass into a criminals hands. Having a gun yourself doesn't ensure your safety.

First off, if a criminal knows that I, or someone near me, might have a gun, then they might think twice about trying anything to begin with.  If, however, I cannot carry a concealed firearm because of the law, he can be fairly certain that he has the upper hand.  If I too can carry a firearm, then he will know that he has to sneek up on me, and if he fails, that gives me a chance.  If I have no gun, no matter what I do, he has the upper hand.

Second, this is no solution to the problem.  It doesn't plug the leaks that allow criminals to purchase guns.  Instead, it justs takes them out of the hands of law abidding citizens.  You are suffering for some form of backwards logic here, in that you seek to start at the end goal.  If I were going to organize an anti-gun plan, this would be the last step, not the first.  My first step would be to fix problems with the laws that we have to make it harder for criminals to aquire firm-arms in the first place.  What you have done is to vote to tip the scale decisively in favor of the criminals who already have, or can aquire arms, and don't give a sh**t about the law.

[Akno21]

I'll justify my vote too. I believe this bill would put more guns on the street and that leads to the death of innocent people.

And how, exactly, Senator, will this stoping this prevent criminals from aquirering firearms?

Mr. Vice President, when someone purchases a firearm, you have no way of knowing what their intentions are.

If you allow someone to legally walk down the street carrying a firearm, who knows what kind of mental health they may be in. They may be drunk, in which case they could accidently shoot someone. It is my personal belief that more guns don't make people safer. In fact, although I see no problem to allowing people to have firearms in their own homes, it should be noted that when people shoot an "intruder" they are more likely to shoot their spouse going to the bathroom than they are to stop an intruder. It is my personal belief that more guns in public places do not make us safer. You may disagree with that, and I respect your right to.

Real cirminals don't purchase firearms over the counter.  If I wanted to I could leave my appartment right now, head down five blocks and buy a gun for $50 from someone on the street.  That's how real criminals get their weapons.  They aren't going to try to get a concealed carry permit, they are just going to carry the damn thing.  Are you really so foolish that you honestly believe that a criminal who would commit such a crime will obey the law and not carry a concealed firearm?

Would it not make more sense to grant citizens the right to conceal arms for their own personal protection?

If someone walks up to you on a street and points a gun at your head, having a gun yourself wouldn't help you. The criminal would see you reaching into your coat pocket, and he'd kill you right then.

What we need is to have more background checks, and make it harder for criminals to acquire guns, legally or not. That includes increasing funding for police and law enforcement officals. Every gun a criminal gets was gotten from somewhere, we need to make it harder for a gun to pass into a criminals hands. Having a gun yourself doesn't ensure your safety.

First off, if a criminal knows that I, or someone near me, might have a gun, then they might think twice about trying anything to begin with.  If, however, I cannot carry a concealed firearm because of the law, he can be fairly certain that he has the upper hand.  If I too can carry a firearm, then he will know that he has to sneek up on me, and if he fails, that gives me a chance.  If I have no gun, no matter what I do, he has the upper hand.

Second, this is no solution to the problem.  It doesn't plug the leaks that allow criminals to purchase guns.  Instead, it justs takes them out of the hands of law abidding citizens.  You are suffering for some form of backwards logic here, in that you seek to start at the end goal.  If I were going to organize an anti-gun plan, this would be the last step, not the first.  My first step would be to fix problems with the laws that we have to make it harder for criminals to aquire firm-arms in the first place.  What you have done is to vote to tip the scale decisively in favor of the criminals who already have, or can aquire arms, and don't give a sh**t about the law.

Fine, would you like to draft legislation that provides strciter background checks for people purchasing guns?

If carrying a weapon in public is illegal, a policeman could arrest a would-be-criminal for carrying it.

I think the real question we must grapple with is why we have over 10,000 gun murders per year and other civilized countries have 200. Why are we so violent?

[Harry]

All of this discussion doesn't change the fact that this bill puts more guns on the streets.

[12th Doctor]

All of this discussion doesn't change the fact that this bill puts more guns on the streets.

Voting against this bill takes guns out of the right hands, though.  We want to take guns from criminals, not innocent, law abiding citizens.

[JohnFKennedy]

Voting will end on Wednesday unless a motion to extend voting for a week is brought to me and supported by a further four Senators.

[StevenNick]

I move to extend voting for a week.

Can I get a second??

[JohnFKennedy]

Seconded.

[Harry]

I wish to go against the motion and ask for a vote on the motion.

[JohnFKennedy]

I wish to go against the motion and ask for a vote on the motion.

Umm, the motion to extend voting time isn't voted upon, it comes into effect if it gains the support of four Senators excluding he who proposed it.