Kerry and the media

[© tweed]

Welcome back, Tcash....you never post anymore, you used to be one of our main contributors at the old board

Well, I've been doing campaign volunteering (Kerry) and GOTV stuff, so I guess I got a lot of my political chit chat in that way. Haven't had tons of spare time.

Volunteering for Kerry?  

[TomC]

Welcome back, Tcash....you never post anymore, you used to be one of our main contributors at the old board

Well, I've been doing campaign volunteering (Kerry) and GOTV stuff, so I guess I got a lot of my political chit chat in that way. Haven't had tons of spare time.

Volunteering for Kerry?  

What's wrong there Smiley- you look a little sick. Been drinking your sorrows away? One shot for each state Edwards lost? Yikes, that could get ugly!

[© tweed]

I just don't see why a good southern Dem like TCash supports flip-flopping Massachusetts liberal Kerry.

[TomC]

Kerry and Edwards are quite close on the issues. One big difference: Kerry supports free trade, Edwards does not. Throughout the 90s, Dems who supported free trade were looked at as moderate on that issue, not giving in to left leaning labor demands.

Flip flop?
Are you referring to the war? If Kerry flip flopped, so did Edwards.  Of course so did "no nation building" Bush
 
Is it that Kerry being from Mass. simply makes him more of a liberal?? That's an oversimplification I'd expect from, well...  a R ... no I can't call a fellow Democrat that.

Look, I like em both. I chose Kerry early on because I thought his military experience, his service on key committees, and, quite honestly the fact he didn't introduce TONS of bills. A few of the ones he did impressed me... grants for female operated businesses, other women's rights stuff. And clearly you don't but I prefer someone who sounds educated to someone who sounds more Average Joe. But, and I'm not saying this because Kerry is leading now, I'll support any one of the Democrats running (yes, even Sharpton) over the self-centered, power hungry, Nixon-like imbecile we've got in there now.

Have you heard the new Bush/Cheney slogan for bumper stckers?...

"Bush/Cheney...elect us this time"

[agcatter]

Well, just let me throw in my Republican view here.  From our point of view, Kerry is a much easier target.  No slam dunk mind you, but he's got a clear record over 22 yrs in the Senate that can be attacked.  Vietnam or no Vietnam that defense record is very vulnerable.  Edwards has no record to speak of and nothing to go after.   Also, Edwards seems very likable, Kerry seems arrogant and pompous.  I don't like Edwards on the issues of course (I am afterall a Republican)  but Edwards conveys a sense of humility that Kerry just doesn't project.                                  

Cash is right of course about both being similar on issues.  However,  I got to say that from a Republican point of view, Edwards scares the hell out of me.  I don't want to have to run against him.  Fortunately for us, looks like Dems are going to eliminate Edwards.  I'm thankful of that.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I like Edwards, and I like Kerry.
Either is better than the "Connecticut Cowboy"...

[© tweed]

Flip Flop?
Are you referring to the war? If Kerry flip flopped, so did Edwards.  Of course so did "no nation building" Bush

Kerry has flip-flopped on free trade, the war, weapons programs, etc.  I would vote for Kerry, but that said, I really do not like him and I will vote EDWARDS in our primary next week.
 

Is it that Kerry being from Mass. simply makes him more of a liberal?? That's an oversimplification I'd expect from, well...  a R ... no I can't call a fellow Democrat that.

He isn't a liberal because he is from Massachusetts, but he is a liberal with a 95% liberal economic rating (higher than Ted Kennedy's), an 82% social liberal rating, and a 73% foreign liberal rating.  He is a liberal, you cannot argue that.

[agcatter]

Edwards is also liberal.  However, Edwards is a far superior candidate to Kerry.  I'm amazed Democrats can't see that.  Hey, I thought you guys were anxious to win.  Edwards would give you a much better chance to do that.  Edwards would be a very tough candidate in the general election.  Glad we don't have to face him.

[© tweed]

Edwards is also liberal.  However, Edwards is a far superior candidate to Kerry.  I'm amazed Democrats can't see that.  Hey, I thought you guys were anxious to win.  Edwards would give you a much better chance to do that.  Edwards would be a very tough candidate in the general election.  Glad we don't have to face him.

Well, Edwards is very liberal economically, but is center-left socially.  Kerry's voting record is about 25-30% more liberal than Edwards, according to the national journal.

I'll say it again:  I don't see Bush beating edwards in the general.  I just couldn't see it happening.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Edwards is also liberal.  However, Edwards is a far superior candidate to Kerry.  I'm amazed Democrats can't see that.  Hey, I thought you guys were anxious to win.  Edwards would give you a much better chance to do that.  Edwards would be a very tough candidate in the general election.  Glad we don't have to face him.

Well, Edwards is very liberal economically, but is center-left socially.  Kerry's voting record is about 25-30% more liberal than Edwards, according to the national journal.

I'll say it again:  I don't see Bush beating edwards in the general.  I just couldn't see it happening.

Its because half of the voters don't know anything!

"Look, its that there John Kerry, he's be winnin' everything!, VOTE!"

Edwards would wreck Bush in the general election.  A short little cowboy screaming about fear and terrorism, against a southerner with a big smile and a campaign full of optimism.  Are you kidding me?  But my stubborn little democrat friends want to nominate....... a massachusetts ultra-liberal?  Why?  I don't think we can take another 4 years of Bush, but nor do I want to be waiting 8 years for Edwards, we need this guy now!  

[agcatter]

Bush is no better than 50 - 50 against Edwards.

80 - 20 to beat Kerry.  

It appears the argument as to how well Edwards would do vs. Bush is pretty academic now.  Dems determined to nominate Kerry.  Why I have absolutely no idea whatsoever.  It can't be his likability.  The guy is from all accounts an elitist snob.  Conceded to the point of not even being liked by liberals.  I don't think he's going to go over with the electorate over eight months.  At least that's how it looks to me.  Edwards on the other hand seems to be a guy you could feel good having a beer with.  He could connect.  I don't see Kerry as the kind that will bond with the American people.  Gives the impression that he thinks he's superior to everyone else.

[agcatter]

I guess what I'm saying is that Edwards would have appeal to middle America.  Kerry has very little appeal to that segment of the electorate.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Bush is no better than 50 - 50 against Edwards.

80 - 20 to beat Kerry.  

It appears the argument as to how well Edwards would do vs. Bush is pretty academic now.  Dems determined to nominate Kerry.  Why I have absolutely no idea whatsoever.  It can't be his likability.  The guy is from all accounts an elitist snob.  Conceded to the point of not even being liked by liberals.  I don't think he's going to go over with the electorate over eight months.  At least that's how it looks to me.  Edwards on the other hand seems to be a guy you could feel good having a beer with.  He could connect.  I don't see Kerry as the kind that will bond with the American people.  Gives the impression that he thinks he's superior to everyone else.

Exactly.  

And no I don't think it will be 80-20, but Bush will win.  Kerry is just not charasmatic like Edwards.  Watchng Edwards speak puts a smile on your face.  Kerry's just.....bleh.....  Hell, I'm the biggest hockey fan you'll meet and his little hockey playin stunt in NH didn't do anything for me.  

And Agcat, speaking of hockey, whats with any state below Maryland and hockey?  It's like it hated!  

[Mort from NewYawk]

Hate to break up the bipartisan Edwards fan club, but I think he has a LONG way to go to prove he could beat Bush.

Nobody knows anything about this guy. Sure, he seems friendly, he seems to connect, he knows just what to say to make you believe in him. Well guess what, the guy's a successful big-time trial lawyer, of course he can do all of those things.

How long do you think it would take the media to focus on that aspect of his life, or for the American people to get the feeling that he's maybe a little bit slick, a little bit too sincere, has a nice personal way about him but maybe don't want him dealing with rogue nations with nuclear arms?

[TomC]

 Edwards on the other hand seems to be a guy you could feel good having a beer with.  

Well, if that's your criteria, I guess Bush isn't quite up to the job (without going to excesses). Watch out for his pretzel eating too!

I'm not really interested in "having a beer" with the President, and I think middle America would agree in large part, they'd rather have someone with experience in national government than someone who can say "Hey, I was working class when I was a kid." On that experience, Kerry's got more; hence the "22 year voting record" you all keep bringing up.

As for the argument Kerry is too liberal, this government has never been more conservative, at least not since 1930. Democrats and Independents (and moderate GOPers) are QUITE aware of this fact. Even if he wants to, Kerry will not pull the government to a socialist, tree hugging, solar-powered state; congress won't let him. And he won't let them drive the country into too many right wing excesses. Either side can legitimately engender fear about the excesses of the other, but for the ones who already control everything, it'll be a harder sale.

[agcatter]

Well, no one down here plays the game.  It doesn't exist in the high schools or colleges.  We have tried to get a franchise down here in Houston and the NHL just won't go for it.  Now it's really been a hit in Dallas.  I went with a friend to one of the games there and I loved it!  Man, that was exciting!  Of course, there again my friend had to explain to me everything from off sides to icing.  We just don't get any exposure to the sport here.  Football is king here in Texas, but I really think hockey is the kind of game a lot of us could get hooked on if we just had some exposure to it.  In the high schools down here it's football, football, football....

[agcatter]

What Kerry could do is pull what already is a runaway judiciary even further to the left.  Of course, now that the Dems have legitimized the filibuster of judges at the circuit court level I would enjoy watching the Dems get some of their own medicine.

[TomC]

Of course, now that the Dems have legitimized the filibuster of judges at the circuit court level

Oooooh, like 2 out of 100. That's the fear-baiting I'm talking about. Bush gets, what, 98% of his judges through and we're responsible for ending life as we know it.

[agcatter]

Five at last count and not even 50 circuit judges nominated.  Of those, many have been blue slipped.

Bet it will seem a lot more important to you when your guys are the ones being blocked.

[classical liberal]

Have you heard what the filibustered black female judge said about grandparents?

[TomC]

Five at last count and not even 50 circuit judges nominated.  Of those, many have been blue slipped.

Bet it will seem a lot more important to you when your guys are the ones being blocked.

Well, we'll just do some recess appointments and bypass the  entire legislative branch. That'll be kosher, right? I mean, you're talking about eliminating checks and balances, right? Let's go to town!

[TomC]

In a different tone, I'd give up the filibuster on judges if the "recess appointment" practice can go to. Any takers?

[© tweed]

General Election hypotheticals:

Edwards 52%
Bush 47%

Bush 51%
Kerry 46%

[Mort from NewYawk]

Bush 49.6 %
Kerry or Edwards 48.8%
All others 1.6%

Not a dime of difference between the two, at least with regard to the number of votes they can get.

The media will find plenty to unload on either. We've got an inkling of what they can do with Kerry. They'll find plenty in Edwards' trial-lawyer style to examine (after awhile, he can easily be seen as slick and insincere, not Presidential timber).

Dems lose IA and WS, pick up NH and maybe NV.

[© tweed]

Edwards v. Bush:



Edwards 360 to Bush 168