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Author Topic: Israel  (Read 71210 times)
dead0man
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« Reply #200 on: June 26, 2008, 05:14:45 PM »

If there is one thing we've learned it's that this will never stop until all the Jews are gone.  If every Jew left every settlement in the West Bank would anybody be shocked if two days later rockets started flying out of there?  Would anybody be shocked if the anti-Zionists around here defended the rocket attacks?
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benconstine
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« Reply #201 on: June 26, 2008, 05:21:40 PM »

If there is one thing we've learned it's that this will never stop until all the Jews are gone.  If every Jew left every settlement in the West Bank would anybody be shocked if two days later rockets started flying out of there?  Would anybody be shocked if the anti-Zionists around here defended the rocket attacks?

No and no.
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #202 on: June 26, 2008, 05:32:21 PM »

I hope those comments aren't directed at me dead0man.
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Flying Dog
Jtfdem
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« Reply #203 on: June 26, 2008, 06:44:44 PM »

Has Israel ever known true peace?
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Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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« Reply #204 on: June 26, 2008, 08:31:46 PM »

Has Israel ever known true peace?

dude, they live around a bunch of Arabs
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Flying Dog
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« Reply #205 on: June 26, 2008, 08:40:21 PM »

Has Israel ever known true peace?

dude, they live around a bunch of Arabs

Before Muhammad and even Jesus, I mean....
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Albus Dumbledore
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« Reply #206 on: June 26, 2008, 08:41:30 PM »

Palestine is rightfully one nation from the river to the sea.
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jmfcst
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« Reply #207 on: June 26, 2008, 09:06:13 PM »

Has Israel ever known true peace?

dude, they live around a bunch of Arabs

Before Muhammad and even Jesus, I mean....

The Arabs have been around since Ishmael...but Israel has know peace from time to time in the old testament, but they would always fall away from God and the result would be attack from another country.
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Хahar 🤔
Xahar
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« Reply #208 on: June 26, 2008, 11:49:29 PM »

Has Israel ever known true peace?

dude, they live around a bunch of Arabs

Before Muhammad and even Jesus, I mean....

The Arabs have been around since Ishmael...but Israel has know peace from time to time in the old testament, but they would always fall away from God and the result would be attack from another country.

So, they deserve what they're getting? Good to know.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #209 on: June 27, 2008, 07:35:38 AM »

I do not care what the Bible says here, it is not our guide to foriegn policy

Are you sure?

Anyway, I think we should be prepared that it becomes...

This focus on Israel, to me, so much wasted energy, possibly leading to a human big-bang on the more or less long term, and I don't speak about Iran, let's hope we're not in a final countdown...

I think there would have more interesting horizons than this focus on old justifications for a small piece of the Earth...

Thanks
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jmfcst
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« Reply #210 on: June 27, 2008, 08:55:47 AM »

Has Israel ever known true peace?

dude, they live around a bunch of Arabs

Before Muhammad and even Jesus, I mean....

The Arabs have been around since Ishmael...but Israel has know peace from time to time in the old testament, but they would always fall away from God and the result would be attack from another country.

So, they deserve what they're getting? Good to know.

but God also always punished the nation(s) he used as instruments of his judgment of Israel.  So its a double-edged sword. 
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dead0man
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« Reply #211 on: June 27, 2008, 02:37:24 PM »

I hope those comments aren't directed at me dead0man.
You'd know better than I if those comments were directed at you. 


(I wasn't thinking of you when I wrote it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't apply)
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War on Want
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« Reply #212 on: June 27, 2008, 06:24:15 PM »

If there is one thing we've learned it's that this will never stop until all the Jews are gone.  If every Jew left every settlement in the West Bank would anybody be shocked if two days later rockets started flying out of there?  Would anybody be shocked if the anti-Zionists around here defended the rocket attacks?
Don't be ridiculous. Would anyone here be surprised if Israel attacked Iran tommorow and all of the Zionists here defended Israel?
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #213 on: June 27, 2008, 07:49:21 PM »

If there is one thing we've learned it's that this will never stop until all the Jews are gone.  If every Jew left every settlement in the West Bank would anybody be shocked if two days later rockets started flying out of there?  Would anybody be shocked if the anti-Zionists around here defended the rocket attacks?
Don't be ridiculous. Would anyone here be surprised if Israel attacked Iran tommorow and all of the Zionists here defended Israel?

That's totally different.
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MasterJedi
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« Reply #214 on: June 27, 2008, 09:24:17 PM »

If there is one thing we've learned it's that this will never stop until all the Jews are gone.  If every Jew left every settlement in the West Bank would anybody be shocked if two days later rockets started flying out of there?  Would anybody be shocked if the anti-Zionists around here defended the rocket attacks?

Hell all the Jews could Israel and they'd still be attacked with rockets somewhere else, and again all the anti-zionists would still defend it. -_-
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dead0man
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« Reply #215 on: June 27, 2008, 10:50:29 PM »

If there is one thing we've learned it's that this will never stop until all the Jews are gone.  If every Jew left every settlement in the West Bank would anybody be shocked if two days later rockets started flying out of there?  Would anybody be shocked if the anti-Zionists around here defended the rocket attacks?
Don't be ridiculous. Would anyone here be surprised if Israel attacked Iran tommorow and all of the Zionists here defended Israel?
If Iran gave up land first (or some other card they had in their hand) and then Israel attacked, no, I wouldn't defend them.
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #216 on: June 27, 2008, 11:18:12 PM »

If there is one thing we've learned it's that this will never stop until all the Jews are gone.  If every Jew left every settlement in the West Bank would anybody be shocked if two days later rockets started flying out of there?  Would anybody be shocked if the anti-Zionists around here defended the rocket attacks?
Don't be ridiculous. Would anyone here be surprised if Israel attacked Iran tommorow and all of the Zionists here defended Israel?
If Iran gave up land first (or some other card they had in their hand) and then Israel attacked, no, I wouldn't defend them.

Same here.  If Iran did something other than call for Israel to be wiped off the map, I wouldn't be nearly as concerned.
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #217 on: June 28, 2008, 06:13:39 AM »

I hope those comments aren't directed at me dead0man.
You'd know better than I if those comments were directed at you. 


(I wasn't thinking of you when I wrote it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't apply)

It was the latter I was enquiring about. Personally I don't think it does; I have always condemned the death of innocent people both by Palestinian terrorists and the IDF. I don't defend terrorism but I do seek to understand it. Ehud Barak made what I've always felt to be a telling statement once shortly before he became Prime Minister of Israel; when asked what he would have done had he been born a Palestinian he said that he'd probably have joined a terrorist organization. Both sides are to blame. They haven't shared equal blame throughout history obviously, there have been times when one side has been more responsible for the failure of negotiations and violence than the other and that's a fact that goes both ways. Unfortunately, it's a commonly believed myth that Israel's history is far rosier than it actually is - particularly in relation to 1947-8 where the blame must lie with both Israel and the Arab League - and that is what I've been trying to redress here. Most of my posts in this thread have been aimed at correcting historical falsehoods.
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dead0man
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« Reply #218 on: June 28, 2008, 10:02:54 AM »

I don't think anybody has denied that Israel did some funked up things early on.
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Albus Dumbledore
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« Reply #219 on: June 28, 2008, 12:20:45 PM »

Rename this thread to Palestine thanks in advance.
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #220 on: June 28, 2008, 12:21:34 PM »

I don't think anybody has denied that Israel did some funked up things early on.

Even I won't deny it.
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #221 on: June 28, 2008, 12:26:24 PM »

I don't think anybody has denied that Israel did some funked up things early on.

Even I won't deny it.

With 1947-8 it was more about dispelling the myth that the Palestinians rejected the UN Mandate and that that is where the problem comes from which is something that you (benconstine) have said on at least one occasion.
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #222 on: June 28, 2008, 12:29:48 PM »

I don't think anybody has denied that Israel did some funked up things early on.

Even I won't deny it.

With 1947-8 it was more about dispelling the myth that the Palestinians rejected the UN Mandate and that that is where the problem comes from which is something that you (benconstine) have said on at least one occasion.

True, I have said that, and I believe it.
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #223 on: June 28, 2008, 12:35:30 PM »

I don't think anybody has denied that Israel did some funked up things early on.

Even I won't deny it.

With 1947-8 it was more about dispelling the myth that the Palestinians rejected the UN Mandate and that that is where the problem comes from which is something that you (benconstine) have said on at least one occasion.

True, I have said that, and I believe it.

Did you not read what I had to say on this the first OR second time? Basically, the Palestinians couldn't reject the UN Mandate because there were no Palestinian leaders consulted on the matter. Rather than re-write the whole thing, I've just quoted what I put last time. Please tell me how it squares with your perception of 1947-8.


Unwilling to negotiate? I would say it was rather hard for the Palestinians to negotiate at all given that the British had dismantled both the Higher Arab Committee and the Supreme Muslim Council in 1936, leaving Palestinian Arabs lacking in effective and united leadership. So who represents the Palestinian cause? The Arab League whose member states were facing mounting domestic unrest and in many cases had an intrinsic interest in there not being a viable Palestinian state: for instance Abdullah of Jordan's involvement in the 1948 war was primarily a bid to control the Palestinian part of the partition, rather than any meaningful attempt at establishing an independent Palestinian state as the Israeli historian Avi Shlaim has shown in his work on the 1948 war (I'll be happy to give a reference if you want).

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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #224 on: June 28, 2008, 12:40:05 PM »

It doesn't work very well; my perception had always been that the Palestinians rejected what the UN offered, and went to war with Israel to regain the lost territory.

Are there any good books I can read on the establishment of Israel?
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