Israel

[Albus Dumbledore]

Have you heard of a little something called de-nazification?

[dead0man]

..and The Great War ended all future wars.

[Franzl]

There is a disconnect why Jews got their homeland in palestine even though the genocide against them was conducted in Europe. I understand it was written in the bible and that Jews did live there a millenia ago, but is that really enough? The true reason is that the palestinians were powerless to stop the Zionists and it was because they had no true representation in 1948. It was unfair what was done to the palestinians in 1948 and the Zionists were not entitled to a single square inch of land. In a fair world a part of Germany/Poland would have been carved out for a Jewish homeland, but this world is not fair is it?

This times 100. Carving out a jewish state in the Rhineland would have been perfectly acceptable to me(Germans did try to kill them all so they do need to pay for their crimes) but not one in Palestine.

Do you actually have any idea how much Germany has paid for its crimes over the decades?

[Sbane]

There is a disconnect why Jews got their homeland in palestine even though the genocide against them was conducted in Europe. I understand it was written in the bible and that Jews did live there a millenia ago, but is that really enough? The true reason is that the palestinians were powerless to stop the Zionists and it was because they had no true representation in 1948. It was unfair what was done to the palestinians in 1948 and the Zionists were not entitled to a single square inch of land. In a fair world a part of Germany/Poland would have been carved out for a Jewish homeland, but this world is not fair is it?

This times 100. Carving out a jewish state in the Rhineland would have been perfectly acceptable to me(Germans did try to kill them all so they do need to pay for their crimes) but not one in Palestine.

Genius!  Lets put all the Jews in the backyard of the people that just got finished trying to kill them all.  And right next door to the newest super power that was at the time, killing millions more Jews!  I'm guessing Jews in 1946 wanted to get pretty far away from Germans and Russians.  Their sparsly populated and technologically backward homeland was a much better option, to them, at the time.  You can argue against them moving back there, but arguing that it would have made more sense for them to stay in Germany is flat out retarded.


..and I'm German(-American).

A country could have been created out of Germany just like it was out of Palestine. Land is land. In retrospect dont you think Israel would have been better of next to a sane German republic? I guess you can also make the argument that anti-semitism would have been much much higher in Europe, similar to how it is in the middle east currently.

[dead0man]

I'm not saying it couldn't have been created out of Germany, I'm saying that it would be stupid to create in the back yard of the people that just got finished rounding you all up for easy killing.  Using hindsight, sure it might seem like the Jews would have been safer surrounded by sane, modern, western Germans instead of, well, a less sane and modern people, but they didn't get to use hindsight.  Germans didn't seem particularly sane to the Jews at the time anyway.  And it's not like the rest of Europe was Jew friendly.  If you're going to be surrounded by people that hate you, you might as well do it in your homeland, surrounded by people stuck in the 11th Century than in the middle of bunch of different modern nations with large Armies.

[JohnFKennedy]

I'm not saying it couldn't have been created out of Germany, I'm saying that it would be stupid to create in the back yard of the people that just got finished rounding you all up for easy killing.  Using hindsight, sure it might seem like the Jews would have been safer surrounded by sane, modern, western Germans instead of, well, a less sane and modern people, but they didn't get to use hindsight.  Germans didn't seem particularly sane to the Jews at the time anyway.  And it's not like the rest of Europe was Jew friendly.  If you're going to be surrounded by people that hate you, you might as well do it in your homeland, surrounded by people stuck in the 11th Century than in the middle of bunch of different modern nations with large Armies.

You really do take a dim view of Arabs don't you?

How are you defining 'modern' here?

[Tory]

Do you know how Israel treats Jewish converts to Christianity?

Better than how Saudis treat Islam coverts to Judaism?

Answer: There aren't any.

Any guesses as to why?

Because Judaism doesn't encourage conversion.

This is true, it takes something like seven years to convert as I recall.

It depends. Non-Orthodox conversions take about a year, maybe two, usually. Orthodox conversions done outside of Israel generally take two years to perhaps 3 or 4 if bureaucracy gets in the way. Within Israel all conversions are done through the state(Ministry of Immigration and The Chief Rabbinate) and take about 8 months. They are considered Orthodox, which is the only kind of conversion that Israel accepts for purposes of marriage, burial, official recognition by the chief rabbinate, etc etc. You can technically move to Israel and gain citizenship through having converted with a Progressive Jewish movement(Reform or Conservative), however you won't be able to marry or be recognized as a Jew by the religious establishment.

[Albus Dumbledore]

..and The Great War ended all future wars.

Weimar Era germany was unstable and lacked strong democratic institutions. Present day germany has democratic institutions. Not really comparable.

[War on Want]

..and The Great War ended all future wars.

Weimar Era germany was unstable and lacked strong democratic institutions. Present day germany has democratic institutions. Not really comparable.

They had fairly strong democratic institutions, it is just that much of the populace was pissed off at the government for following Versailles. The Social Democrats were the largest party until 1933, when the Nazis were elected.

[Albus Dumbledore]

The lack of safeguards let the nazis get absolute power so..

[dead0man]

And the Jews knew there were going to be "safeguards" in 1947?

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Palestinian goes on rampage in Jerusalem; 3 killed

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[Franzl]

Just let them all kill each other....then the problem's gone.

[dead0man]

But they wouldn't kill each other, one side would win and one side would lose, they've tried that before with mixed results.  Wait, that is great idea!  But let's actually declare a winner when they fight next time, make the losers leave.  Maybe a new homeland for the loser in Germany?

[Franzl]

But they wouldn't kill each other, one side would win and one side would lose, they've tried that before with mixed results.  Wait, that is great idea!  But let's actually declare a winner when they fight next time, make the losers leave.  Maybe a new homeland for the loser in Germany?

They can have Saxony. Actually, I'd be happy to give them entire East Germany, under one condition. The wall must be built again.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

But they wouldn't kill each other, one side would win and one side would lose, they've tried that before with mixed results.  Wait, that is great idea!  But let's actually declare a winner when they fight next time, make the losers leave.  Maybe a new homeland for the loser in Germany?

Deal.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Just let them all kill each other....then the problem's gone.

It would be nice to be that simple, however, the side that won would them find a new group of people to hate.  The Middle East is exactly a place where rational thoughts and civiled government exists

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

While one cannot equate property and life, one wonders if the bulldozer incident will make the Zionists less likely to bulldoze Palestinian property as part of their land grabbing in the West Bank.  Doubtful, but one can always hope.

[Franzl]

Just let them all kill each other....then the problem's gone.

It would be nice to be that simple, however, the side that won would them find a new group of people to hate.  

Possible.

[dead0man]

link

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I'm not sure of the logic behind releasing a brutal murderer for a couple of dead bodies, but I know I wouldn't want to be on the side of people who would put the same brutal murderer in military garb and parade him around an arena as if he was a war hero.

[Хahar 🤔]

Why exactly did Israel do this?

[dead0man]

The old "leave no man behind" creed I'd imagine.  Like with most things, when taken to the extreme it can get kind of silly.

[Хahar 🤔]

The old "leave no man behind" creed I'd imagine.  Like with most things, when taken to the extreme it can get kind of silly.

So it can. Like when you let out a dangerous murderer 524 years early.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Olmert needs successes at the moment. Failing that he needs things that look like they might be.

Here's a list of reasons why...

[Iosif is a COTHO]

I can only assume Olmert has incriminating material against every kadima and labour MP, because there's no way someone like him should have held the job of PM for more than a week.