Puerto Rico?
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Author Topic: Puerto Rico?  (Read 7533 times)
TommyC1776
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« on: August 10, 2004, 07:51:05 AM »

Should they be able to vote?
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TommyC1776
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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2004, 07:51:46 AM »

I think they should.
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Fritz
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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2004, 08:02:34 AM »

If they would become a state, yes.  As long as the people there keep opposing statehood, no.  Its all or nothing.  You can't have some of the benefits of statehood without the responsibilities of statehood.
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MODU
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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2004, 08:14:35 AM »


Unfortunately, they benefit more by being a territory than a state.  I doubt that we'll see them as a state anytime soon.
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Acastus
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« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2004, 09:47:44 AM »

As a previous poster stated, Puerto Rico needs to apply for statehood and be accepted before they are given a voice in the eletion of federal officials.  The process and qualifications for statehood are stated in the Constitution.  Deviation from that process would probably require an amendment, such as that for the District of Columbia.  

The question itself is politically charged, of course, because such an admission would automatically result in 2 permanent Democrat Senators and 5 or 6 Democrat House members.  This would add an extra 7 or 8 electoral votes for the Democrats in each presidential election, and perhaps more, depending on which states lost house seats to make up for the new PR delegation.  I wouldn't bet on a GOP congress accepting a PR application for statehood in any event.  It'd be an interesting spectacle, though.
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Fritz
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2004, 10:04:58 AM »

The Democratic Party controlling PR's congressional delegation is not a sure thing.  When Alaska and Hawaii were admitted, it was widely believed that Alaska would be totally Democrat, and Hawaii would be totally Republican.  Of course, its the other way around.

No territory applying for statehood has ever been denied it because of the political party makeup of its population.  The closest we ever came to that resulted in the Missouri Compromise, which said that whenever a slave state was admitted, a free state also had to be admitted, and vice versa.  Denying statehood to PR (if they applied for it) because of Republican fears of more Democrats in congress, would make the Republicans look really bad, I think.  There might be some resistance, but I don't think it would last long.
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MODU
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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2004, 10:10:39 AM »


http://www.prstatehood.com/statehood/issues4.html#politics
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muon2
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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2004, 10:40:33 AM »

As a previous poster stated, Puerto Rico needs to apply for statehood and be accepted before they are given a voice in the eletion of federal officials.  The process and qualifications for statehood are stated in the Constitution.  Deviation from that process would probably require an amendment, such as that for the District of Columbia.  

The question itself is politically charged, of course, because such an admission would automatically result in 2 permanent Democrat Senators and 5 or 6 Democrat House members.  This would add an extra 7 or 8 electoral votes for the Democrats in each presidential election, and perhaps more, depending on which states lost house seats to make up for the new PR delegation.  I wouldn't bet on a GOP congress accepting a PR application for statehood in any event.  It'd be an interesting spectacle, though.
No state would need to lose any seats. The number of seats is set by an act of Congress and they can add to that number if they admit new states. Until 1920, they regularly added new seats to match the growing population of the country.
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Giant Saguaro
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« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2004, 12:05:33 PM »

No, absolutely not - they are not a state. They could fill out an application if they wanted, but all positions are filled and should remain so.
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opebo
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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2004, 02:30:54 PM »

No, of course not.  If they're admitted as a state we would have to admit a  new strongly Republican state.
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Andrew
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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2004, 02:55:21 PM »

Did you know that if I decide to move to Canada without giving up my citizenship, I can vote for President via absentee ballot--but if I move to Puerto Rico, I can't?
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khirkhib
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« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2004, 03:19:24 PM »

If Puerto Ricans want to become a state they should be able to and for that matter Guam and the US Virgina Islands should also have the opportunity.  In fact Guam has shown a lot of interest in becoming a state but Republicans would not let any of these territories become states.

Puerto Rico has a population of some 3.9 million about the same as Kentucky so they would get 5-6 representaives and 7-8 Electoral votes

Guam however only has  a population 166,000 and the VIs even less at 108000.  They would both get only 1 representative but they would also get 3 EV votes, and pretty strong Electoral Votes considering the small pop.  

And you know if they let these three territories get Reps they would have to give Washington DC a rep as well (they have a population about equal the size of wyoming)

Republicans won't let this happen.  If one of these comes in it would probably mean all 4 would and that could give the democrats 8 easy seats in the house, and if they gave DC senators that would be 8 Senate seats.  They would also be giving the Democrats 13-14 Electoral College Votes.  

Oh it is fine to say that they could be added if there were repulbican states to add as well, but there aren't and because there aren't the will of the people doesn't really matter much.
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MODU
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« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2004, 04:03:13 PM »


Here's a good article:

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/slg/explanation-statehood.phtml

As far as Guam goes, don't expect it to ever become a state in our life-time.  There simply isn't enough residents on the island to support it as a state, and therefore will always be dependent upon the Federal government for it's existance.  That is the same reason why DC is still technically a territory and won't become a state.
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opebo
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« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2004, 04:44:38 PM »

If Puerto Ricans want to become a state they should be able to and for that matter Guam and the US Virgina Islands should also have the opportunity.  In fact Guam has shown a lot of interest in becoming a state but Republicans would not let any of these territories become states.

Puerto Rico has a population of some 3.9 million about the same as Kentucky so they would get 5-6 representaives and 7-8 Electoral votes

Guam however only has  a population 166,000 and the VIs even less at 108000.  They would both get only 1 representative but they would also get 3 EV votes, and pretty strong Electoral Votes considering the small pop.  

And you know if they let these three territories get Reps they would have to give Washington DC a rep as well (they have a population about equal the size of wyoming)

Republicans won't let this happen.  If one of these comes in it would probably mean all 4 would and that could give the democrats 8 easy seats in the house, and if they gave DC senators that would be 8 Senate seats.  They would also be giving the Democrats 13-14 Electoral College Votes.  

Oh it is fine to say that they could be added if there were repulbican states to add as well, but there aren't and because there aren't the will of the people doesn't really matter much.

We could create more Republican states out of right-wing areas of Texas, California, etc.
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MODU
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« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2004, 04:57:27 PM »


opedo,

There has been only three exceptions to the Constitution regarding the formation of states out of current existing states:  West VA, Kentucky, and Maine.  Your division (though I know you were probably joking) idea would not work.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2004, 06:02:28 PM »

Had Puerto Rico been a state at the time of the last census it would have received 6 Representatives and NC, CA, OH, FL, IA, and GA would have each received one less represebtative as they were the recipients of the six last representatives using the method of equal proportions that the law specifies.  The webpage that best explains this that I have found is not surprisingly on the Census Bureau's website.  The priority number for PR's 6th representative is 695,354 which would make him the 414th Representative assigned.  The priority number for the 435th Reprsenative (8th Minnesota) would be 658,220 and the priority number for PR's 7th Representative is 587,681 which while I don't know exactly where on the list it would place him, would be well below a lot of others.  
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2004, 12:29:29 PM »

Not unless they become a state.
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bushforever
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« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2004, 01:03:45 PM »

You can't forget the Northen Mariana Islands.  I think they only have like 40,000 people though.  LOL.
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khirkhib
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« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2004, 01:19:47 PM »

The Northern Mariana Islands do not vote in the Democratic Presidential Primaries.  Guam, THE USVIs and PR do.  Do they vote in the Republican Presidential Primaries.
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TommyC1776
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« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2004, 03:11:13 PM »

The Northern Mariana Islands do not vote in the Democratic Presidential Primaries.  Guam, THE USVIs and PR do.  Do they vote in the Republican Presidential Primaries.

I think they do
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2004, 04:15:15 PM »

No, I would issue them an ultimatum, become a state or get out.  Why do the Ricans get their own Olympics team?  They aren't Americans, they are just some Third World country that we take pity on, major pity, look how much money we give them.  I would rather send that money to West Virginia.  

Become a state or get out, that would be my final offer.  Sorry if I offend anyone, but California doesn't have it's own team and if Puerto Ricans want to be Americans, then they shouldn't either.
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ian
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« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2004, 05:25:12 PM »

If they would become a state, yes.  As long as the people there keep opposing statehood, no.  Its all or nothing.  You can't have some of the benefits of statehood without the responsibilities of statehood.

I was about to post the same answer.  I don't think that this is a yes/no poll.  Fritz is right; it IS all or nothing for Puerto Rico.
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ian
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« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2004, 05:28:34 PM »


Good link.  Thank you, Modu.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2004, 09:55:51 PM »

No, I would issue them an ultimatum, become a state or get out.  Why do the Ricans get their own Olympics team?  
So that our basketball team can get humilated by them instead of another country. Smiley
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