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Huckleberry Finn
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« on: February 11, 2004, 12:48:12 pm »
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I was watching some travelling program last night. It was about Washington DC. I was little confused when
senator Orrin Hatch who introduced Congress said: "This is the capital of the world!" ??

As political realist I can handle it, but I wonder what average Finnish citizen thought?

What you guys would think if some member of European Parliament said in Brussels that "This is capital of the World"?
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2004, 12:53:14 pm »
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Brussels isn't even the capital of Europe, so it would seem ridiculous... Wink

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Huckleberry Finn
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2004, 01:21:25 pm »
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Brussels isn't even the capital of Europe, so it would seem ridiculous... Wink


I think that Brussels will become European capital. I can see European Federation towards year 2050 at the latest.

But I would like to see New York as capital in the world. Not only because of UN, but because it really is the World City like Oswald Spengler has expressed it. (London is another one) And I see idea of World City more positive way than pessimistic Spengler.  
« Last Edit: February 11, 2004, 01:22:39 pm by Huckleberry Finn »Logged

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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2004, 01:32:04 pm »
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Brussels isn't even the capital of Europe, so it would seem ridiculous... Wink


I think that Brussels will become European capital. I can see European Federation towards year 2050 at the latest.

But I would like to see New York as capital in the world. Not only because of UN, but because it really is the World City like Oswald Spengler has expressed it. (London is another one) And I see idea of World City more positive way than pessimistic Spengler.  


I'd rather see London than any other town...I hope we don't end up with a European federation, and if we do, I REALLY hope the capital isn't Brussels. That would be disasrtous for Europe, we have problems enough as it is.
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Huckleberry Finn
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2004, 02:14:53 pm »
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Brussels isn't even the capital of Europe, so it would seem ridiculous... Wink


I think that Brussels will become European capital. I can see European Federation towards year 2050 at the latest.

But I would like to see New York as capital in the world. Not only because of UN, but because it really is the World City like Oswald Spengler has expressed it. (London is another one) And I see idea of World City more positive way than pessimistic Spengler.  


I'd rather see London than any other town...I hope we don't end up with a European federation, and if we do, I REALLY hope the capital isn't Brussels. That would be disasrtous for Europe, we have problems enough as it is.
I have understood that you are anti-EU. If so, why?
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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2004, 02:29:47 pm »
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Brussels isn't even the capital of Europe, so it would seem ridiculous... Wink


I think that Brussels will become European capital. I can see European Federation towards year 2050 at the latest.

But I would like to see New York as capital in the world. Not only because of UN, but because it really is the World City like Oswald Spengler has expressed it. (London is another one) And I see idea of World City more positive way than pessimistic Spengler.  


I'd rather see London than any other town...I hope we don't end up with a European federation, and if we do, I REALLY hope the capital isn't Brussels. That would be disasrtous for Europe, we have problems enough as it is.
I have understood that you are anti-EU. If so, why?

Yes I am, for several reasons. One is that I view it as anti-liberal project, another that I think it is an anti-American project. I think it threatens free markets, national independence, democracy and the anglo-saxon hegemony, that, overall, is a good thing, imo.
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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2004, 03:08:25 pm »
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I've always thought a more logical EU capital is Luxembourg, which would become the first truly European nationl city, because of it's small size it's current identity could be absorbed by influx of French and Germans. Also Luxembourg is already center of Euro banking, and Brussels has thestigma of being headquarters of the evil evil NATO.
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2004, 05:14:07 pm »
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I understand what Hatch meant, but I think that there are only two cities that can claim the title "capital of the world"- New York and London.
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2004, 05:15:38 pm »
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I've always thought a more logical EU capital is Luxembourg, which would become the first truly European nationl city, because of it's small size it's current identity could be absorbed by influx of French and Germans. Also Luxembourg is already center of Euro banking, and Brussels has thestigma of being headquarters of the evil evil NATO.

'evil NATO"  why is NATO evil.  I think that it is one of the best organizations in the world and has massive potential in the future.  Especially for the war on terror.
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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2004, 05:32:46 pm »
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I've always thought a more logical EU capital is Luxembourg, which would become the first truly European nationl city, because of it's small size it's current identity could be absorbed by influx of French and Germans. Also Luxembourg is already center of Euro banking, and Brussels has thestigma of being headquarters of the evil evil NATO.

Identity, what identity? Wink Luxembourg is the only member of the EU where the inhabitants feel more like Europeans than Luxembourg...Luxembourgians...Luxembourgers...whatever... Wink
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« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2004, 12:55:36 am »
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supersoulty: the double evil wassupposed to make it funny and ironic. I like NATO fine. I doubt that those who seethe EU as a counterweight to the USA, do.

Gus: That's kind of what I meant.
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2004, 12:58:54 am »
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supersoulty: the double evil wassupposed to make it funny and ironic. I like NATO fine. I doubt that those who seethe EU as a counterweight to the USA, do.

Gus: That's kind of what I meant.

Uh-ha, I see.  i thought you were bing serious there.
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Platypus
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« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2004, 01:01:30 am »
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Huckleberry Finn
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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2004, 02:22:27 am »
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I've always thought a more logical EU capital is Luxembourg, which would become the first truly European nationl city, because of it's small size it's current identity could be absorbed by influx of French and Germans. Also Luxembourg is already center of Euro banking, and Brussels has thestigma of being headquarters of the evil evil NATO.
Not bad idea. But I don't know, what Luxenbourgians would think? I can accept almost every city as capital of Europe except any city in France or in Germany!

And most European don't think that NATO is evil!
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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2004, 11:49:54 am »
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I've always thought a more logical EU capital is Luxembourg, which would become the first truly European nationl city, because of it's small size it's current identity could be absorbed by influx of French and Germans. Also Luxembourg is already center of Euro banking, and Brussels has thestigma of being headquarters of the evil evil NATO.
Not bad idea. But I don't know, what Luxenbourgians would think? I can accept almost every city as capital of Europe except any city in France or in Germany!

And most European don't think that NATO is evil!

I doubt the French could accept any city outside France... Wink

To M: I know that's what you meant, I was just elaborating a little... Wink
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« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2004, 11:51:54 am »
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I've always thought a more logical EU capital is Luxembourg, which would become the first truly European nationl city, because of it's small size it's current identity could be absorbed by influx of French and Germans. Also Luxembourg is already center of Euro banking, and Brussels has thestigma of being headquarters of the evil evil NATO.
Not bad idea. But I don't know, what Luxenbourgians would think? I can accept almost every city as capital of Europe except any city in France or in Germany!

And most European don't think that NATO is evil!

I certainly don't think NATO is evil. I think we shoulf have joined NATO instead of the EU, an almost unique position...
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« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2004, 12:52:51 pm »
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The people I was mainly referring to are specific French politicians, almost all of them from certain parts of Paris, as well as some in the Belgian government. I personally believe a strong, democratic Europe isin the interests of the entire world. But as a partner and ally of the USA's not a Cold War type enemy, like Chirac seems to be implying.
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« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2004, 01:50:08 pm »
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The people I was mainly referring to are specific French politicians, almost all of them from certain parts of Paris, as well as some in the Belgian government. I personally believe a strong, democratic Europe isin the interests of the entire world. But as a partner and ally of the USA's not a Cold War type enemy, like Chirac seems to be implying.

French EU-politicians aren't all there is to Europe... Wink
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Huckleberry Finn
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« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2004, 04:49:23 pm »
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Brussels isn't even the capital of Europe, so it would seem ridiculous... Wink


I think that Brussels will become European capital. I can see European Federation towards year 2050 at the latest.

But I would like to see New York as capital in the world. Not only because of UN, but because it really is the World City like Oswald Spengler has expressed it. (London is another one) And I see idea of World City more positive way than pessimistic Spengler.  


I'd rather see London than any other town...I hope we don't end up with a European federation, and if we do, I REALLY hope the capital isn't Brussels. That would be disasrtous for Europe, we have problems enough as it is.
I have understood that you are anti-EU. If so, why?

Yes I am, for several reasons. One is that I view it as anti-liberal project, another that I think it is an anti-American project. I think it threatens free markets, national independence, democracy and the anglo-saxon hegemony, that, overall, is a good thing, imo.
My reply comes little bit late, but better late than never.

I must strongly disagree your views about European Union. Why you think that EU is anti-free-trade project? EU is world’s biggest free-market area. Of course there is some protectionism against other economy areas, but how it differs from trade policy of USA, Japan, Australia...?

In fact Sweden’s decision to remain outside of euro was truly anti free-trade act and will hurt your economy very much in forthcoming years. (It also hurts OUR economy) It is fact that your own currency is really barrier of trade and it causes huge extra expenditures. (I can understand your view from nationalist perspective. Own currency is nice thing of course)

I deeply disagree that EU is anti-American. France might be anti-American, but France is not whole EU. It is also true that France and German have too much power in EU, but that is basically result of weakness, reluctance and apathy of other nations. It is thing what we can change if we really want to do it. (And I truly want it happen)  

It is well-known fact that Finns are more pro-Europe than Swedes and for good reason. The becoming EU-member was much more important event in Finland than in Sweden, because we approached to whole issue from very different perspective. You have obviously heard concept “Finlandization”, which was regrettable phenomen in my country during the Cold War. Pure fact is that without end of the Cold War there would have not been any chance join to European Union, because of our geopolitical position.

When I voted for membership of European Union in 1994 referendum, it was (and probably will always be) most politically important moment in my life! It really felt great!

I hope that next step in our way of west-integration will be membership of NATO.
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« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2004, 05:02:59 pm »
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Brussels isn't even the capital of Europe, so it would seem ridiculous... Wink


I think that Brussels will become European capital. I can see European Federation towards year 2050 at the latest.

But I would like to see New York as capital in the world. Not only because of UN, but because it really is the World City like Oswald Spengler has expressed it. (London is another one) And I see idea of World City more positive way than pessimistic Spengler.  


I'd rather see London than any other town...I hope we don't end up with a European federation, and if we do, I REALLY hope the capital isn't Brussels. That would be disasrtous for Europe, we have problems enough as it is.
I have understood that you are anti-EU. If so, why?

Yes I am, for several reasons. One is that I view it as anti-liberal project, another that I think it is an anti-American project. I think it threatens free markets, national independence, democracy and the anglo-saxon hegemony, that, overall, is a good thing, imo.
My reply comes little bit late, but better late than never.

I must strongly disagree your views about European Union. Why you think that EU is anti-free-trade project? EU is world’s biggest free-market area. Of course there is some protectionism against other economy areas, but how it differs from trade policy of USA, Japan, Australia...?

In fact Sweden’s decision to remain outside of euro was truly anti free-trade act and will hurt your economy very much in forthcoming years. (It also hurts OUR economy) It is fact that your own currency is really barrier of trade and it causes huge extra expenditures. (I can understand your view from nationalist perspective. Own currency is nice thing of course)

I deeply disagree that EU is anti-American. France might be anti-American, but France is not whole EU. It is also true that France and German have too much power in EU, but that is basically result of weakness, reluctance and apathy of other nations. It is thing what we can change if we really want to do it. (And I truly want it happen)  

It is well-known fact that Finns are more pro-Europe than Swedes and for good reason. The becoming EU-member was much more important event in Finland than in Sweden, because we approached to whole issue from very different perspective. You have obviously heard concept “Finlandization”, which was regrettable phenomen in my country during the Cold War. Pure fact is that without end of the Cold War there would have not been any chance join to European Union, because of our geopolitical position.

When I voted for membership of European Union in 1994 referendum, it was (and probably will always be) most politically important moment in my life! It really felt great!

I hope that next step in our way of west-integration will be membership of NATO.


I suspected you would have the "Finnish" view on the EU... Wink

The EU is a big market, that's what enables it to act protectionist. Sweden have always favoured free trade, but I believe that the EU is alrge enough to think that it can act protectionist, and with the traditions of many European countries, especially France, it will. What Australia, the US or any other country does is irrelevant to that issue.

France is allowed to dominate the EU in an unhealthy way, and the EU is definitely anti-American, look at the way the Iraq War as handled, look at the forming of a European foreign and defence policy independent of the US, dividing the Western World. There is more hope now that the new members join though, countries who have felt the heel of Communist oppression and still remember the Cold War will not accept anti-Americanism. One of the few times that I have actually felt warmly for Bush was when he visited Latvia and held a speech on their joning of NATO, saying that now every enemy of Latvia would be an enemy of the US. That was a great thing, very emotional.

I worked for the no-campaign and I am convinced that we will benefit from staying out, just like most independent economists think and jsut like we have been doing great out-side the eurozone for a long time. A currency is NOT a trade barrier, the cost is very low and it allow you to adjust better to changes in the economy through currency depreciation/appreciation and interest rate changes. These are more important. Sweden was the only country to do a thorough survey of economical factors regarding EMU and came to the decision that there were no strong reasons for joining.

I can understand that Finns are more pro-Europe for emotional reasons, but I think that it's clouding the judgement of Finland, sadly, since Europe would benefit if decent, liberal countries could work together more strongly.

Finally, we can at least agree as two of the few Swedes and Finns favouring membership in NATO... Smiley I always find it so sad that we joined the EU and NOT NATO when it should have been the other way around.
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