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Author Topic: Judaism  (Read 56479 times)
Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #300 on: September 25, 2012, 04:39:45 PM »

I have two questions: first, when does the Sabbath end for you?  I'm an Adventist and it always ended at sunset for us.  We had a Rabbi visit our church once and she said something about it ending when there are three stars visible in the sky.  Could you explain this discrepancy, please?

Second: With Rosh Hashanah going on right now, people keep referring to it as "the Jewish New Year."  I had always believed this until a man at my church said that the New Year began the week before Passover.  Which is it?  I know Rosh Hashanah is like the anniversary of Creation, but could you explain this also please?

PS: I am a proud Judeophile, so it might surprise you that I am asking these questions!
Firstly, the Jewish day (and therefore the Sabbath) goes from sunset to sunset. I think the Rabbi may have been using metaphors, because I've never heard that. Secondly, it is the Jewish new year, as in the anniversary of creation, and it was the new year at Rosh Hashanah, not the week before passover.
A guy from my church said that the new year began the week before Passover.  And would Jews sacrifice animals again if the Temple were rebuilt?  Granted it's unlikely, but still...
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The Mikado
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« Reply #301 on: September 25, 2012, 09:09:19 PM »

I have two questions: first, when does the Sabbath end for you?  I'm an Adventist and it always ended at sunset for us.  We had a Rabbi visit our church once and she said something about it ending when there are three stars visible in the sky.  Could you explain this discrepancy, please?

Second: With Rosh Hashanah going on right now, people keep referring to it as "the Jewish New Year."  I had always believed this until a man at my church said that the New Year began the week before Passover.  Which is it?  I know Rosh Hashanah is like the anniversary of Creation, but could you explain this also please?

PS: I am a proud Judeophile, so it might surprise you that I am asking these questions!
Firstly, the Jewish day (and therefore the Sabbath) goes from sunset to sunset. I think the Rabbi may have been using metaphors, because I've never heard that. Secondly, it is the Jewish new year, as in the anniversary of creation, and it was the new year at Rosh Hashanah, not the week before passover.
A guy from my church said that the new year began the week before Passover.  And would Jews sacrifice animals again if the Temple were rebuilt?  Granted it's unlikely, but still...

Rosh Hashanah is the switchover on calendar years, but it's the "first day of the seventh month," leading to centuries of jokes about Jews being the only people stiff-necked and obstinate enough to start their year in the seventh month rather than the first.  Passover is about half a year removed from Rosh Hashanah, so maybe it's the resetting of months (not sure here)?

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As far as animal sacrifice goes, the answer is yes, it would hypothetically be practiced in a hypothetical Third Temple (along with the return of a hereditary priestly caste), but very few actual Jews would go along with it and it would probably lead to a schism in the faith.

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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #302 on: September 26, 2012, 03:26:51 PM »

As far as animal sacrifice goes, the answer is yes, it would hypothetically be practiced in a hypothetical Third Temple (along with the return of a hereditary priestly caste), but very few actual Jews would go along with it and it would probably lead to a schism in the faith.

About how many do you think would go along with it? 144,000? Wink
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hawkeye59
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« Reply #303 on: September 30, 2012, 12:21:32 PM »

As far as animal sacrifice goes, the answer is yes, it would hypothetically be practiced in a hypothetical Third Temple (along with the return of a hereditary priestly caste), but very few actual Jews would go along with it and it would probably lead to a schism in the faith.

About how many do you think would go along with it? 144,000? Wink
I'd say the Hasidim, and that's about it. Possibly some of the ultra-orthodox.
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benconstine
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« Reply #304 on: March 23, 2013, 04:14:50 PM »

It's almost Passover!
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MyRescueKittehRocks
JohanusCalvinusLibertas
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« Reply #305 on: March 24, 2013, 12:15:14 AM »

Have a blessed Passover Ben.
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benconstine
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« Reply #306 on: March 26, 2013, 10:03:04 PM »


Thanks JCL
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #307 on: March 31, 2013, 08:07:10 AM »
« Edited: March 31, 2013, 10:35:54 AM by pbrower2a »

I honestly don't know (what happens to the most egregious sinners of all time -- Hitler, Stalin).

Let me guess -- out of sight and out of mind. Probably in contrast to Schadenfreude that some Christians suggest, a ringside seat to watch torments inflicted upon such types as Pol Pot and Saddam Hussein.

In the summer of 1980 I was in Hell -- Dallas that year. On a day on which that the  temperature reached 113F I made the flippant remark to a Jewish co-worker that I had just seen Hideki Tojo. Or was it Benito Mussolini? I was saving Stalin for 114F, but I had gone through a series of Wild West outlaws, gangsters, dictators, and war criminals. The co-worker didn't get it, and it wasn't for a lack of intelligence or ability to appreciate grim humor. So there is no Hell in Judaism? If any people has villains to condemn, it is the Jews.  

I once engaged a Nazi sympathizer (a piece of work -- a Holocaust denier and a horrible hypocrite on European-Arab relations... the sort who loved Palestinians as fighters of his nemesis Israel but didn't want them living in Europe or the Americas) on a now-defunct Forum and eventually got him into a discussion of Dante's Inferno in which I challenged him to contemplate what eternity would be like for people even worse than the well-characterized sinners of Dante's time. Dante Aligheri could have never contemplated Nazis, Stalinists, the Khmer Rouge, and Ba'athists. Maybe one could imagine Karl Marx (at least to conservatives of the 20th Century) being consigned to the peculiar torment that Dante allotted to Mohammed for "tearing the world apart with his heresy". I could imagine Nazi hanging judge Roland Freisler dangling forever on piano wire from a meat hook as was the sentence that he imposed upon those that he convicted of the July 20 plot. But such takes no imagination.  

But ignore the sensory insult and deprivation... I asked him whether he wanted his soul to be around those souls who betrayed, lynched, tortured, robbed, beat, and murdered people. Sulfurous smells, hunger, thirst, and general ugliness are less ominous to me than being around the grossly-unjust. Maybe I would get some grim satisfaction out of seeing Josef Goebbels getting his lies pushed back into his mouth as lye, with predictable effects. But I wouldn't want to see such for long. "Out of sight and out of mind" is best for all.

Performances of operatic collaborations between Shakespeare and Mozart would be a fitting eternal reward for the righteous.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #308 on: March 31, 2013, 08:24:26 AM »

Why are Jews so well represented in Congress, yet we've never had a Jewish president?

Good question. Not that I would predict that our next President will be Jewish, but you-know-who has forcefully shattered the near-WASP lock on the Presidency.
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Ebowed
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« Reply #309 on: March 31, 2013, 08:32:40 AM »

Not that I would predict that our next President will be Jewish, but you-know-who has forcefully shattered the near-WASP lock on the Presidency.

JFK? Tongue
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politicus
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« Reply #310 on: March 31, 2013, 09:31:35 AM »

Not that I would predict that our next President will be Jewish, but you-know-who has forcefully shattered the near-WASP lock on the Presidency.

JFK? Tongue
Good point. Obama is a BASP, not much different from the other "near WASP"s like Reagan.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #311 on: March 31, 2013, 11:37:50 AM »

To be fair Martin van Buren and Dwight Eisenhower technically didn't fulfill the A & S in WASP.
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Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
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« Reply #312 on: April 29, 2013, 09:44:04 PM »

Sorry about the bump, but Scott and I were talking about creation in another thread and he claimed that Jewish people, even the most Orthodox Jews, don't believe in a literal 6-Day-Creation and fall of man.

Is that true, my Jewish friends?
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #313 on: April 29, 2013, 09:45:50 PM »

Sorry about the bump, but Scott and I were talking about creation in another thread and he claimed that Jewish people, even the most Orthodox Jews, don't believe in a literal 6-Day-Creation and fall of man.

Is that true, my Jewish friends?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_evolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_evolution#Modern_day_Orthodox_Jewish_views

Wikipedia is your friend, friend. Tongue
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Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
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« Reply #314 on: April 29, 2013, 09:49:03 PM »

Nice try Scott, but I want an actual Jew to chime in with his facts/opinions.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #315 on: April 29, 2013, 09:57:57 PM »

Nice try Scott, but I want an actual Jew to chime in with his facts/opinions.

So the information I provide is irrelevant/wrong because I'm not Jewish?  Uh, alright...
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benconstine
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« Reply #316 on: April 29, 2013, 10:14:42 PM »

Reform Jews do not accept a literal definition of the Creation account found in Genesis.
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Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook
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« Reply #317 on: April 29, 2013, 10:49:34 PM »

Reform Jews do not accept a literal definition of the Creation account found in Genesis.

That's obvious, givin the orgins and ideals of Reform Judaism (ie: Scripture is irrelevent and you're a Jew as long as your mother is) but do Conservative and Orthodox Jews accept Genesis 1-11 as facts?
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #318 on: April 30, 2013, 10:28:26 AM »

Another discussion board I frequent has a poster who is both a practicing astrophysicist and a Haredi Jew living in Israel. 

He would accept Genesis 1-11 as metaphorical, except that he also insists using the word "Genesis" means you're talking about the horrible Christian Bible which is nothing at all like the Torah, because it's full of mistranslations by ill-meaning Greeks and completely ignores the Oral Torah, which makes it clear that duh, of course it's metaphorical.

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« Reply #319 on: April 30, 2013, 10:50:55 AM »

Another discussion board I frequent has a poster who is both a practicing astrophysicist and a Haredi Jew living in Israel. 

He would accept Genesis 1-11 as metaphorical, except that he also insists using the word "Genesis" means you're talking about the horrible Christian Bible which is nothing at all like the Torah, because it's full of mistranslations by ill-meaning Greeks and completely ignores the Oral Torah, which makes it clear that duh, of course it's metaphorical.

Hmmmm, imagine what would happen if I ever talked to this guy...
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #320 on: April 30, 2013, 11:05:24 AM »

Another discussion board I frequent has a poster who is both a practicing astrophysicist and a Haredi Jew living in Israel. 

He would accept Genesis 1-11 as metaphorical, except that he also insists using the word "Genesis" means you're talking about the horrible Christian Bible which is nothing at all like the Torah, because it's full of mistranslations by ill-meaning Greeks and completely ignores the Oral Torah, which makes it clear that duh, of course it's metaphorical.

Hmmmm, imagine what would happen if I ever talked to this guy...

You guys would probably agree on some stuff. Like disliking Jews who only call themselves Jewish as an ethnic thing.
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #321 on: April 30, 2013, 12:15:57 PM »

Another discussion board I frequent has a poster who is both a practicing astrophysicist and a Haredi Jew living in Israel.  

He would accept Genesis 1-11 as metaphorical, except that he also insists using the word "Genesis" means you're talking about the horrible Christian Bible which is nothing at all like the Torah, because it's full of mistranslations by ill-meaning Greeks and completely ignores the Oral Torah, which makes it clear that duh, of course it's metaphorical.

Hmmmm, imagine what would happen if I ever talked to this guy...

Another fun fact: he supports gay marriage now.  Put that in your stereotype and smoke it.  Tongue
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benconstine
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« Reply #322 on: April 30, 2013, 01:26:10 PM »
« Edited: May 01, 2013, 08:13:50 AM by Gustaf »



the Oral Torah, which makes it clear that duh, of course it's metaphorical.

Yeah, the Rabbinic commentary is pretty helpful to read, for things like this, and to see how Jews in the 1st and 2nd centuries interpreted the Torah.  Very illuminating.
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« Reply #323 on: May 01, 2013, 01:34:10 AM »

Another discussion board I frequent has a poster who is both a practicing astrophysicist and a Haredi Jew living in Israel. 

He would accept Genesis 1-11 as metaphorical, except that he also insists using the word "Genesis" means you're talking about the horrible Christian Bible which is nothing at all like the Torah, because it's full of mistranslations by ill-meaning Greeks and completely ignores the Oral Torah, which makes it clear that duh, of course it's metaphorical.

Hmmmm, imagine what would happen if I ever talked to this guy...

You guys would probably agree on some stuff. Like disliking Jews who only call themselves Jewish as an ethnic thing.

Well I shouldn't make assumptions but if a Haredi it's quite likely that he holds to the view that those born into Judaism have to follow all these rules and those who aren't don't, basically two standards (so of course Reform Jews are not "true" Jews), and I doubt would show much consideration to any Jews that opted to convert to something else, or really respect anyone's right to convert to something else than what they were born into. It's a common attitude amongst a lot in "the East" (you know in India, the Hindu extremist parties actually want to ban conversion), Islam and very conservative Jews. So if he does feel that way, the disagreement would be much worse.

Another discussion board I frequent has a poster who is both a practicing astrophysicist and a Haredi Jew living in Israel. 

He would accept Genesis 1-11 as metaphorical, except that he also insists using the word "Genesis" means you're talking about the horrible Christian Bible which is nothing at all like the Torah, because it's full of mistranslations by ill-meaning Greeks and completely ignores the Oral Torah, which makes it clear that duh, of course it's metaphorical.

Hmmmm, imagine what would happen if I ever talked to this guy...

Another fun fact: he supports gay marriage now.  Put that in your stereotype and smoke it.  Tongue

So how did he come to that? Also what does he think of intermarriage? Being opposed to religious intermarriage for any reason is a really sore spot to me for reasons that I've talked about before, it kind of hits home a little.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #324 on: May 01, 2013, 09:37:01 PM »
« Edited: May 01, 2013, 09:41:24 PM by The Mikado »

Yeah, religiously scholarly Orthodox Jews would be the first people to reject stuff based on literal interpretation of the Bible because the Bible is only half of the story (and not even the most important half) compared to the Talmudic intellectual tradition that accompanies everything.  Judaism does not have a sola scriptura attitude towards the Hebrew Bible.  Creationism etc. are the product of Protestant Christianity's attempts to make the book the entirety of religion and the belief that any person can interpret the scripture for him or herself.  The Ortodox Jewish perspective is that even the Hebrew Bible itself is incomplete without Rashi's commentary.

EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shnayim_mikra_ve-echad_targum
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