Judaism

[Alcon]

I have had a lot of contact with jews and jewish culture, I've always enjoyed it.

My grandmother is a bloodline jewess, but she was raised a lutheran and converted to Catholism.

I like the intellectual side of it, which is sorely lacking in Christianity. But I love ham/bacon/prescuito and seafood... and especially dislike the idea of a scalpel. So no deal.

Just FYI, the word Jewess is no longer in general usage.

I know, but it still gets used around the family.

Interesting. I felt like I was reading Mein Kampf.

I really think that you have to be looking to be offended to have assumed that.

Maybe if it was some stranger, but I think PolNut's mistake was honest.

[Alcon]

Oh, sorry

Long day.

[Alcon]

I feel like bumping this thread.

Good.  My opinion of Judaism has cratered in six months.  I now strongly support banning gefilte fish.  Since I don't know what that looks like, I'm just going to go ahead and ban all fish.

[Alcon]

Why has your opninion cratered?

I have a complex mathematical algorithm.  It takes my current opinion of Lorne Michaels, subtracts what I'll call the "Wolf Blitzer Index," and divides that by the number of times my dad has used conversational Yiddish incorrectly this month.

[Alcon]

Why has your opninion cratered?

I have a complex mathematical algorithm.  It takes my current opinion of Lorne Michaels, subtracts what I'll call the "Wolf Blitzer Index," and divides that by the number of times my dad has used conversational Yiddish incorrectly this month.

Interesting.

I'll admit that I still haven't figured out how to work in the Sammy Davis, Jr., effect.  For obvious reasons, that throws the whole thing out of whack.

[Alcon]

I feel like bumping this thread.

Good.  My opinion of Judaism has cratered in six months.  I now strongly support banning gefilte fish.  Since I don't know what that looks like, I'm just going to go ahead and ban all fish.

That's the most angular fish I've ever seen!  It's an abomination.

[Alcon]

But seriously though, what's the deal with the snippy snippy? That's genital mutilation of the unconsentable in my books.

And I don't have a problem with my lack of a foreskin.

Not to make the (inappropriate) comparison, but evidently many/most of the FGM-practicing Africans "don't have a problem" with it either.  That's the danger of ethical decisions made on personal/cultural preference.

[Alcon]

But seriously though, what's the deal with the snippy snippy? That's genital mutilation of the unconsentable in my books.

And I don't have a problem with my lack of a foreskin.

Not to make the (inappropriate) comparison, but evidently many/most of the FGM-practicing Africans "don't have a problem" with it either.  That's the danger of ethical decisions made on personal/cultural preference.

Oh, of course. But there are plenty of worse things to combat.

Depending on where your antecedent's going there, I might disagree strongly, or agree lukewarmly.  I'm going to assume you're not downplaying FGM, so it's probably the agree one. 

My opinion is that FGM is one of the greatest cultural horrors outside of genocide today.  It may not be the worst, but it's up there.  I think male circumcision and lesser forms of female genital cutting are unethical, but not at the same level.  That doesn't mean they should continue, but they probably shouldn't be the focus of limited resources.

[Alcon]

But seriously though, what's the deal with the snippy snippy? That's genital mutilation of the unconsentable in my books.

And I don't have a problem with my lack of a foreskin.

Not to make the (inappropriate) comparison, but evidently many/most of the FGM-practicing Africans "don't have a problem" with it either.  That's the danger of ethical decisions made on personal/cultural preference.

Well to be fair those ladies lose the ability to enjoy sex and they live in a society that doesn't take kindly to the women folk bitching about things.  Boys circumcised can still enjoy sex and if we really didn't like it much, we have the freedom to bitch about it and make it stop.  The two aren't even close to being the same thing.  Calling what they do these little girls "circumcision" would be like calling a hysterectomy and prostrate removal.

That's why I said a comparison would be "inappropriate."  Lumping FGM together with male circumcision, or lesser forms of female genital cutting, serves no purpose whatsoever.  They're totally different physiologically.  My point was that "I don't have a problem with it" is not an ethical defense.  After all, in Africa, not only is FGM "not a problem" to most people (men and women alike), not being mutilated is a social Scarlet Letter.  In fact, FGM apologists argue that this alone justifies the practice -- marriage is more important in the culture than sexual enjoyment or choice, so assuming it's done with sterile instruments, FGM is "OK."

I didn't really mean to equate the different procedures, just the moral calculus.  I think that's concerning enough on its own.

[Alcon]

basically. If the mom is Orthodox the child will have been baptised since she or she was one.

We don't have baptism.

huh I don't understand your statment.

Jews don't practice baptism.  They practice a water cleansing ritual, mivkah, but it's not equivalent.  More similar is the hand-washing practices, which in the Bible used the same word as "baptism."  They're still not the same thing, though.

[Alcon]

basically. If the mom is Orthodox the child will have been baptised since she or she was one.

We don't have baptism.

huh I don't understand your statment.

Jews don't practice baptism.  They practice a water cleansing ritual, mivkah, but it's not equivalent.  More similar is the hand-washing practices, which in the Bible used the same word as "baptism."  They're still not the same thing, though.

thank you I couldn't quit get it off the tip of my tongue.

o...k...

[Alcon]

Circumcision would be an equivalent, no? Or at least, it would've. It's done too early for that purpose these days.

Eh, sort of.

Circumcision isn't a purification ritual; it's a covenant.  There's an inherent element of purification ritual to a covenant, being that it brings one into the religious fold.  But baptism is symbolic of washing away; circumcision is meant as a mark, a theological contract/cattle brand of sorts.

The only similarity is in infant baptism, in that both are both consent-free inductions into religious membership done on the very young.  You could argue that both pertain to the covenant with God, but really what ritual doesn't?  Their meaning is different, and they're not equivalent.  Besides, baptism applies to both sexes, so it can't really be a direct replacement.

[Alcon]

I was aware of all that. That's why I was curious why you were quoting the New Testament above. Was it to show that Judaism influenced Christianity? Or was there another point?

it was to show how Christianity fulfilled spiritually what the physical circumcision had foreshadowed.

Oh, I thought we were discussing Judaism though, not how Christianity fulfills the commandments of Judaism. That could be a whole different thread.

If it's jmfcst, assume that any religious conversation is a lot more about Christianity than whatever is actually being discussed.

[Alcon]

I was aware of all that. That's why I was curious why you were quoting the New Testament above. Was it to show that Judaism influenced Christianity? Or was there another point?

it was to show how Christianity fulfilled spiritually what the physical circumcision had foreshadowed.

Oh, I thought we were discussing Judaism though, not how Christianity fulfills the commandments of Judaism. That could be a whole different thread.

If it's jmfcst, assume that any religious conversation is a lot more about Christianity than whatever is actually being discussed.

For you, that was a decent attempt at humor.  It might actually have been funny...

...except for the fact ALL the scriptural based portions of Judaism are about nothing but Christ.

John 5:39 "You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me"

You're right!  Biblical scripture is much funnier.  Sincerest apologies.

[Alcon]

I was aware of all that. That's why I was curious why you were quoting the New Testament above. Was it to show that Judaism influenced Christianity? Or was there another point?

it was to show how Christianity fulfilled spiritually what the physical circumcision had foreshadowed.

Oh, I thought we were discussing Judaism though, not how Christianity fulfills the commandments of Judaism. That could be a whole different thread.

If it's jmfcst, assume that any religious conversation is a lot more about Christianity than whatever is actually being discussed.

For you, that was a decent attempt at humor.  It might actually have been funny...

...except for the fact ALL the scriptural based portions of Judaism are about nothing but Christ.

John 5:39 "You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me"

You're right!  Biblical scripture is much funnier.  Sincerest apologies.

relax, I wasn't saying you weren't funny, just that your humor isn't

You know, we can go on with this repartee forever, but at the end you're still an old guy.

[Alcon]

Bumping back to the first page.

Why do you keep doing that?

[Alcon]

Today I had a bagel to celebrate.

I have a bagel everyday, but today's was celebratory

[Alcon]

Good luck, Ben.  I'm glad I don't have to put up with all that stuff anymore, but nonetheless...

If I've offended anyone here this past year, sorry.

Are you Jewish?

"I'm glad I don't have to put up with all that stuff anymore" kind of suggests that if he was, he isn't, no?