Judaism

[Yamor]

There are a couple of good translations out there, but it'll cost you quite a bit. It's very difficult to study it yourself, even with an English translation. Can you read Hebrew?

[Yamor]

I only meant can you read Hebrew. Translating wouldn't help you much anyway, since the Talmud is written largely in Aramaic (although they are very similar), and also, even if you could translate the Talmud, you'd still probably find it impossible to understand.
There are a couple of complete translations. The Soncino edition, which I believe is actually available online, and the Schottenstein edition. The Schottenstein edition is far superior, and is even used by people very experienced in Talmud study.
If you have no experience at all, then I wouldn't advise you to start with it on your own.

[Yamor]

It depends what you want exactly. Do you want to study it seriously? Just look at bits of it to see what it's all about?

[Yamor]

Well, it's hard to say what you should do... If you don't mind me asking, are you orthodox, reform or conservative?

[Yamor]

I really don't know what to say. I've studied the Talmud since I was 8 years old, and all I can say is that to really understand what the Talmud is can take quite some time and intensive studying. It's not as simple as just opening up somewhere and reading through a few lines. Of course, you can do that, but I have no idea what you should go for.

[Yamor]

The Schottenstein Edition I mentioned earlier is from Artscroll (Mesorah). It is extremely good, but very big (75 volumes, I think). Each normal sized tractate is like 3 volumes. It's also very expensive, like purple state said (over $35 a volume, I think).

[Yamor]

Fast day today. One of six in the year.

[Yamor]

Why?

[Yamor]

But isn't that the point? It's not a fast day because of something happy. The opposite, it's a fast day because of sad events that happened  today.

[Yamor]

Till when? There's Ta'anit Esther on the 13th of Adar, i.e. under 2 months. After that, not including Ta'anit Bechorot, the next one is in 6 months.

[Yamor]

Not all ultra-orthodox are so careful about the other fasts. People who follow the ways of the Brisker Rav are usually very lenient when it comes to fasts other then Yom Kippur and Tisha'a B'Av.

[Yamor]

Well, Briskers would definitely label themselves ultra-orthodox.

[Yamor]

It's actually not so simple it's talking about the Messiah. Rashi (the 'king' of Jewish commentators on the Bible and Talmud) and others bring two explanations for these verses. They say the simple way of understanding the prophecy is that it's talking about the second Temple, and referring to Zerubabel (sp?). However, they do also bring the way you've understood it, that it's referring to the Messiah.

This has nothing to do with your question, though. The answer to your problem is simple: Verse 13 is clearly speaking about two separate people, as can be seen from the last part of the verse 'between the two'. Your problem stems from the fact that the translation from the Hebrew you have is inexact. The correct translation of the part referring to the priest is "and the priest will be on his throne" - i.e. referring to a second person, and this explains the ending of the verse.
Basically, the earlier descriptions in the verse start off with "V'hu" which translates as "it is he" or "and he will". However the description about the priest starts off with "V'haya" which translates as "and there will be".

[Yamor]

Rashi explains the 'throne' here means the 'throne of the priestship' (i.e. it's referring to the high priest). This could be understood literally, but more likely means the "position", and not an actual throne. The prophecy is saying that the most powerful man after the king, which is the high priest will not fight with the Messiah, that there will be harmony between them.
Other early Jewish commentators (from 500+ years ago) explain that the translation here is not that the priest will sit 'on' his throne, but it means will sit 'in front' of his throne (the Jewish word "Al" used in this verse can have either meaning). They go on to explain that the high priest will see himself as subservient to the Messiah, and therefore there will be peace - i.e. the high priest won't try to fight the Messiah.

I'd just like to stress, that if you look through the whole prophecy it's clear it's not referring to the Messiah, but to Zerubabel. Even the commentators who say the alternative explanation of it referring to the Messiah qualify it by saying that it's not the real meaning of the verse, but is just another 'hidden' meaning behind the words. A bit similar to what Jews believe about all prophecies given in the bible - that even prophecies given about those times can all have other, hidden, meanings, and can all refer to later events.

[Yamor]

I can't think of any other place off-hand. I'll have a think about it, and ask some others better-versed then me in scripture.

Out of interest, as a Christian, how do you understand the prophecy? When was the part about the priest (whether you understand it as being the same person as the Messiah or not) ever fulfilled? Or is it only going to be fulfilled by the second coming of Jesus?

[Yamor]

I see. But if Jesus has both positions, what does the last part of the verse, about harmony between the two, mean?

[Yamor]

Ah, I think I get you - you're understanding it as meaning harmony between the two positions. Is that correct?
I didn't think of that meaning. I was thinking it meant harmony between the different people holding the two positions.
If you do mean like I think you mean, do you not find the phrase 'harmony between the two' slightly wrong? Doesn't it sound more like it's refering to two separate people?

[Yamor]

You are correct that Jews believe that the righteous of all nations will merit Heaven, but I don't think you are right in saying they will 'convert' to Judaism.
You have to remember there is a big difference between (Orthodox) Judaism and most other religions: Orthodox Jews believe that Judaism is not just a religion, rather Jews are Jews by birth, and are Jews whether they want to be or not, whether they believe in Judaism or not. Or even whether they are saints or the biggest mass-murderers. This explains the belief that Heaven is not limited to Jews and Hell is not limited to Non-Jews.
The 'path to salvation' according to Judaism is not being Jewish, it is being righteous. This is also why Judaism does not encourage conversion. If you go to a Rabbi and ask to convert, he'll tell you to not bother, but just live your life as a good person.

[Yamor]

The next couple of days quite important in the Jewish calendar. Ta'anit Esther tomorrow, followed by Purim. Those of you who live near Orthodox areas will probably notice a lot of partying going on.

[Yamor]

Purple State is 100% right. I was about to post the exact same thing till I saw he got here first. I've studied the Talmud for years, and it is a very common sort of analysis used with hundreds of words, i.e. to say that the choice of a certain word to describe something only refers to a limited subset of the full meaning of the word. In this case the Talmud is saying that the Hebrew word "Adam", although in translation is referring to any "man", is used in the Torah to refer only to Jews. Other words, when used, for example "Enosh", refer to any man, even non-Jews.

I'd just like to point out the utter stupidity of websites like the one you bring complaining about the Talmud. Firstly, basically all problems like this can be explained easily by anyone with a true knowledge of the talmud, and secondly, the Talmud was written thousands of years ago, and even if all the complaints they make are true, was still far ahead in matters of race, sex etc. then was common at the time!