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| |-+  Religion & Philosophy (Moderator: Gustaf)
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Poll
Question: Is the person in this example free, and should he be held morally responsible?
Yes/Yes   -5 (45.5%)
Yes/No   -0 (0%)
No/No   -4 (36.4%)
No/Yes   -2 (18.2%)
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Total Voters: 11

Author Topic: Frankfurt Example  (Read 2344 times)
frenger
Bono
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E: 8.65, S: -4.17

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« on: January 30, 2008, 06:01:23 pm »
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Suppose a mad scientist engineers a device that, when a person is faced with the chance to steal a wallet with low risk of being caught, will prevent the person from choosing not to steal it--that is, if the person chooses not to steal it, the device is activated and the choice will be overidden. Now, the person into whom this device is implanted practices several 'snatchings'. But the kicker is, the device was never activated, that is, the person never chose to not steal it. Was this person free in decicing to steal the wallets, and should he be held morally responsible?
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"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed – and hence clamorous to be led to safety – by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." – H.L. Mencken



NO, I don't want to go back to Fantasy Elections.
afleitch
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E: 2.45, S: -8.17

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« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2008, 06:06:18 pm »
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What do you mean by 'practices' snatchings? Is he made aware of the experiment before hand, is he guided in anyway by the scientist giving tips to his test subject?
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All hail the mighty Apollon, god of the sun
frenger
Bono
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2008, 04:07:28 am »
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I don't see why it matters, but no to both questions if it'll get someone to answer.
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"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed – and hence clamorous to be led to safety – by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." – H.L. Mencken



NO, I don't want to go back to Fantasy Elections.
Ghyl Tarvoke
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2008, 05:16:52 am »
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No/Yes.

I'll write an explanation later.
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Quote from: Liveline On Sιan Quinn
These are ordinary people Joe, he just wanted to buy a bank
Quote from: Some guy on Facebook
Guess it's a question of perspective & choice of narrative method ...

... and that, by the way, is also one of the reasons why none of Eric Hobsbawm's books has been turned into a succesful Broadway musical so far.
Gustaf
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E: 0.39, S: -0.70

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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2008, 05:51:47 am »
This is a rejection of Kant's "ought implies can," I gather?
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Quote from: The Pauper of the Surf and the Jester of Tortuga on July 14, 2011, 01:20:59 am
This place really has become a cesspool of degenerate whores...

Economic score: +0.9
Social score: -2.61

In MN for fantasy stuff, member of the most recently dissolved centrist party.
opebo
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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2008, 09:58:50 am »
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no/no.  Individual responsiblity is always a myth.
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Quote from: GM Griffin on May 11, 2013, 11:43:51 pm
opebo is awesome.

Quote from: ?????????? on April 22, 2005, 03:24:06 pm
You are a peice of trash and you disgust me you ignorant louse.
Јas
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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2008, 10:19:32 am »
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If I understand it correctly, yes/yes.
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Funny 'cause it's true:
Quote from: Gustaf on April 03, 2007, 08:54:07 am
Very few people seriously allow facts to affect their opinions.

frenger
Bono
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E: 8.65, S: -4.17

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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2008, 11:15:30 am »
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Quote from: POE on January 31, 2008, 05:16:52 am
No/Yes.

I'll write an explanation later.

Waiting. Smiley
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"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed – and hence clamorous to be led to safety – by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." – H.L. Mencken



NO, I don't want to go back to Fantasy Elections.
Ghyl Tarvoke
Gully Foyle
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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2008, 11:55:55 am »
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Quote from: Bono on February 03, 2008, 11:15:30 am
Quote from: POE on January 31, 2008, 05:16:52 am
No/Yes.

I'll write an explanation later.

Waiting. Smiley

*sigh* I'll give a brief (and thus probably flawed) one:

Obviously such an issue depends on how you define nebulous concepts such as "freedom" but anyway:

Freedom for me at least depends on knowledge, at least a certain awareness of one's surroundings to which one can make informed decisions; It also means a belief in the individual to make his own decisions. And thus comes in the dreaded 'responibility'. Anyways the idea of such a device is to override the rational instinct I described and thus force the individual to act within a certain manner regardless of his ability to think or reason about it. The idea that he had the device installed for 'immoral' purposes or that it was off is irrelevant as 1) he can not judge his reasoning only his actions, 2) the perception of the device was to override rationality (I assuming consent, right?) and to give complete power to 'outside' external forces, the opposite of individual freedom imo. and 3) he was not given the correct data anyway to make a rational decision as he believed the device to be off.

As for responibility - he had already consented to have the device installed and thus knew any potential actions that could happen due to it. As he was still a rational actor when he consented, he is responisible.
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Quote from: Liveline On Sιan Quinn
These are ordinary people Joe, he just wanted to buy a bank
Quote from: Some guy on Facebook
Guess it's a question of perspective & choice of narrative method ...

... and that, by the way, is also one of the reasons why none of Eric Hobsbawm's books has been turned into a succesful Broadway musical so far.
Vasall des Midas
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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2008, 08:26:41 am »
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Quote from: Mr. Fresh on February 10, 2008, 07:47:09 pm
What a strange thought, but I said Yes/Yes.  If the "device" was never activated, and the person chose to steal....then I'm not really seeing how this could be different?

Aw. Blast from the Past. Welcome back!
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Quote from: True Federalist on April 28, 2013, 01:25:07 am
Liberate yourself from Free Will


Kitty's beardgrowing advice to Mitty.
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