Southeastern Tornado Response

[riceowl]

are there any legitimate complaints as to the federal handling of this disaster yet?

[Reaganfan]

are there any legitimate complaints as to the federal handling of this disaster yet?

No, people outside big cities tend not to bitch and moan about things out of human's hands.

[memphis]

You really can't compare this to Katrina. Yes, some unfortunate people suffered losses, but the scale is so much smaller.

[dead0man]

Right, on the other hand these people didn't have a weeks notice to get the hell out of Dodge.

[riceowl]

i wasn't comparing, someone was prodding at Bush asking "soooo, has Bush sent any aid to the tornado areas yet?" and i was making sure i wasn't mistaken in my response.

[Bacon King]

Right, on the other hand these people didn't have a weeks notice to get the hell out of Dodge.

Because, of course, every single resident of New Orleans had the ability to leave the city within the timespan of a few days.

[dead0man]

Of course.  But that accounts for maybe 3% of the people that stayed behind.  I'm sure we both agree that the other 97% were dumbasses.  Also, if the local New Orleans officials had done their jobs properly then everybody would have had the opportunity to leave.  It wasn't the Fed's fault people didn't get evacuated (and I hate the Fed).

[Flying Dog]

Of course.  But that accounts for maybe 3% of the people that stayed behind.  I'm sure we both agree that the other 97% were dumbasses.  Also, if the local New Orleans officials had done their jobs properly then everybody would have had the opportunity to leave.  It wasn't the Fed's fault people didn't get evacuated (and I hate the Fed).

I agree, it was a conjunction of the three levels that all screwed things up. I still have a picture in my mind of all those buses that were just sitting in that lot. They could have evacuated thousands of people. God, I hate Ray Nagin.

[Smash255]

Of course.  But that accounts for maybe 3% of the people that stayed behind.  I'm sure we both agree that the other 97% were dumbasses.  Also, if the local New Orleans officials had done their jobs properly then everybody would have had the opportunity to leave.  It wasn't the Fed's fault people didn't get evacuated (and I hate the Fed).

Yes because we all know that the majority of those that stayed behind were from the wealthier parts of the city and not the poorest....

[dead0man]

I had no idea the majority of the poor in New Orleans had no access to transportation.  I was in the city less than 2 weeks before Katrina hit and I drove the family through some of the poorer parts of town to get to the giant cemeteries and I didn't notice an odd lack of motorized vehicles.  On the contrary, they seemed to be just as mobile as the poor in other large cities I've been in.

I'm not saying there were no sad stories of people that didn't have the ability to leave, of course there was.  There always is in situations like that.  I'm saying that the overwhelming majority of those that didn't leave chose to stay.  Also, the ones that got left behind through no fault of their own don't have the Fed's to blame, they have the local politicians.

[Bacon King]

Let me walk you through the facts here.

The poverty line for a family of four is $20,444 per year. That's $393 a week, before taxes, rent, food, etc. Around 100,000 people displaced by Katrina were below the poverty line (source), so one would assume a sizable portion of New Orleans was making less than $400 a week.

Assuming, say, an evacuation to Baton Rouge, which was closer than most, evacuees would travel around eighty miles one way, spending about $30 on gas for a round trip- assuming they even had a car. Riding the bus is more expensive. A hotel room for four costs at least $50 a night (usually more, you know), and considering a stay of at least two nights, a hotel stay would cost at least $120 with taxes.

That's $150 just to evacuate and find a place to stay. Do you seriously think that a family can easily afford to make such a sudden payment when they make less than $400 a week? If so, you are hopelessly disillusioned.

[JSojourner]

Let me walk you through the facts here.

The poverty line for a family of four is $20,444 per year. That's $393 a week, before taxes, rent, food, etc. Around 100,000 people displaced by Katrina were below the poverty line (source), so one would assume a sizable portion of New Orleans was making less than $400 a week.

Assuming, say, an evacuation to Baton Rouge, which was closer than most, evacuees would travel around eighty miles one way, spending about $30 on gas for a round trip- assuming they even had a car. Riding the bus is more expensive. A hotel room for four costs at least $50 a night (usually more, you know), and considering a stay of at least two nights, a hotel stay would cost at least $120 with taxes.

That's $150 just to evacuate and find a place to stay. Do you seriously think that a family can easily afford to make such a sudden payment when they make less than $400 a week? If so, you are hopelessly disillusioned.

Right, Bacon.  Well put.

Generally speaking, Republican response to Katrina was/is:  "I got mine Jack, now root, hog or die."

But I am ashamed to say the Democratic response, thinking in terms of Governor Blanco and Mayor Einstein Nagin, was something like --  "Uhhhhh.  Hehehe.  Hehehe.  Uhhhhh. "

[Ban my account ffs!]

Let me walk you through the facts here.

The poverty line for a family of four is $20,444 per year. That's $393 a week, before taxes, rent, food, etc. Around 100,000 people displaced by Katrina were below the poverty line (source), so one would assume a sizable portion of New Orleans was making less than $400 a week.

Assuming, say, an evacuation to Baton Rouge, which was closer than most, evacuees would travel around eighty miles one way, spending about $30 on gas for a round trip- assuming they even had a car. Riding the bus is more expensive. A hotel room for four costs at least $50 a night (usually more, you know), and considering a stay of at least two nights, a hotel stay would cost at least $120 with taxes.

That's $150 just to evacuate and find a place to stay. Do you seriously think that a family can easily afford to make such a sudden payment when they make less than $400 a week? If so, you are hopelessly disillusioned.

Well put.

A city-wide, or even region-wide evacuation is such a huge thing that "personal responsibility" does not apply.  There needs to be a uniform way to get all of those that cannot leave out of harms way and they need to be put up in shelters until the threat has passed.

For people living below the poverty line, evacuating or moving out of a hurricane-threatened region is almost impossible without some assistance.

And besides, it was not the hurricane itself that caused the vast majority of the damage.  It was the negligence by the federal government to provide proper protection to one of our most vital ports.  Sure, it's a bad place to build a city, but you can't blame people for living there any more than you can blame today's white children for the institution of slavery.

Having a car is irrelevant if you can't afford the gas to get to safety, as Bacon has already pointed out.

And Dead0man, what would you have it be?  From everything you've said, you're just pointing fingers at the people and bitching.  Would you have them just die or resort to homelessness because their pre-existing poverty forced them to make poor decisions?  Your contempt for the poor is hard to believe.

[Smash255]

Of course.  But that accounts for maybe 3% of the people that stayed behind.  I'm sure we both agree that the other 97% were dumbasses.  Also, if the local New Orleans officials had done their jobs properly then everybody would have had the opportunity to leave.  It wasn't the Fed's fault people didn't get evacuated (and I hate the Fed).

We are talking about what is probably the poorest area of one of the poorest city in the entire country.  People quite simply didn't have access to cars, and for those that did as Bacon King pointed out, evacuating would have been a very very expensive proposition (compared to their income) for them.  Of course the local leaders screwed up as well, no one is denying this, but again we are talking about one of the poorest cities and poorest states in the country here, we aren't talking about an area that has the resources or the $$ to get the resources here.  Those who really had the ability to help, those with the real resources to help that being the federal government and the Bush administration really dropped the ball big time on this one.