Gay Marriage- a general discussion.

[California Dreamer]

This all comes down to the nature or nurture argument.

Is being gay a choice, or something ingrained into some people.

Why would people 'choose' to be gay. Most realise they are gay as teenagers, why would a teenager 'choose' to be an outcast (homosexuality is the leading cause of teenage suicide).

If people are 'born gay' then why should society deny them the right to marry, its like denying people with red hair or the left handed.


This is one of those issues that it is hard to find people against who have a family member or friend who are effected by it. THis is why Cheney is for civil unions and gay rights, and why Nancy Reagan is for stem cell research. Its easy to be against things that happen to 'other people', but when it hits home people understand and learn.

[California Dreamer]

using your superstition and some book written thousands of years ago as arguments related to modern legislation is completely insane.

Your personal belief system is no more or less valid that wiccans or people who think comets are spaceships.

...but you did prove my point in a way.

If homosexuals are 'born gay' then who the hell are you to tell them how to run their lives.

[California Dreamer]

I dont need to 'oustmart' a silly book that you consider sacred, it is completely irrelevent when it comes to any modern discussion of law in a country founded on the principal that religion is irrelevent

re: perversion
I dont know where to start with this one, but I really think you need some help, you are truly a hateful person

[California Dreamer]

I truly believe that if Jesus were here today he would weep at your kind of narrowminded hateful thinking

Gay people love eachother and are kind and good people. I know many of them including my family members and its people like you that have lost the ability to learn how to love your fellow man.

...i suggest therapy

[California Dreamer]

the book is not silly, I know quite a lot about it having gone to catholic school for 13 years.

What is silly is to use a text based on a faith as an argument for modern legislation. This kind of theocracy is what we shook off centuries ago.


And this issue hits very close to home with me. And it really pisses me off when someone equates being gay with adultary or even murder. I am the uncle to a little girl who is being raised by two women, who are the most loving caring people I know. And to have anyone say that some book written centuries ago legitimizes society denying them their rights is 'silly'. And when someone calls my sister (or my cousin or one of my best friends) 'perverted' I can only think that Jesus would be appalled that they havent learned to love thy neighbors

RE: Fornicators
...hey everyone needs a hobby, I suggest you try it

[California Dreamer]

I thought we left all the people blathering on about 'fornicators' and 'sinners' back in the 19th century.

what is sad is that the 21st Century Republican party still embraces these people and lets them write the party platform.

Hopefully soon the "Swarzenegger Wing" win the fight for the soul of the party, otherwise within 50 years the Republicans are going to go the way of the 'Whigs'

[California Dreamer]

Dude...why are you quoting passages out of some book as if that proves your point.

Harry Potter is a big seller, should I run my life by that?


And I love my family members...that is how I love them. Call me crazy but I think calling them immoral fornicating sinners isnt really 'love', in fact the last time I looked that is called 'hate' and dont try dressing it up any other way.

If you had a son who was gay would you tell him he is an immoral sinner. Its people like you that is the reason gay kids are far more likely than straight kids to attempt suicide...which I imagine you are happy with since they are evil sinners

[California Dreamer]

Why don't you just admit that you hate everything that Jesus stood for, just like those who killed him?

I am reminded of a qutoe that my Jesuit mentor quoted to me when I realised I was an atheist
"some of the most christian people I have met are not Christians"
- Gahndi

I guess according to you, since I love my sister, I hate Jesus.

how dare you equate my family members with alchoholics, murderers, thieves etc. You are the one who needs a readjustement, in your tolerance for others.

throw all the stuff you want from any book you want, it doesnt change the fact that you think you have some right to tell other people how to live their lives and that the way they love is invalid and that society should shun them....not very christian of you.

[California Dreamer]

well I am done...there is no point in arguing against faith.

I have no issue against faith...I just wish people kept in where it belonged, in their own homes and places of worship.

[California Dreamer]

why is it all these Republicans want to stop marraige because of theoritical effects on society.

Social engineering doesnt sound like somethign the party of 'personal freedom' should be getting involved in.


It certainly is more palatable than the 'its a sin' argument, but is just as fearfull and hatefull.


why do you people care so much what other people are doing in the privacy of their homes. How can the party of personal freedom and responsibility want to control laws and extend the 'nanny state' in order to engineer monogomy.

[California Dreamer]

I still cant reconcile the Republican need to social engineer marraige

but totally against the social engineering of affirmative action and other democratic programs.

and totally against any restrictions on the ownership and use of guns

If you believe the people should be free to make their own choices and do what they please...they why step in here and legislate morality. And why limit it to one group? What is it about gay people that is such a clear and present danger? why do you hate them so much?

[California Dreamer]

and the 'people' are against the silly ammendment.

And the long term trend in all polls is towards acceptance. I would bet any amount of money that within 10 years CA will reverse the vote it made years ago....and as Californica goes, so goes the rest of the country...eventually


...and if the rest of the country doesnt wise up...then we will form our own Republic...who needs ya