Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
September 03, 2014, 02:17:49 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  Questions and Answers
| |-+  Presidential Election Process
| | |-+  Approval Voting
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: Approval Voting  (Read 6026 times)
Polkergeist
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 320


View Profile
« on: August 14, 2004, 03:48:42 am »
Ignore

You guys have probably heard of approval voting. For those who haven't this voting system is very simple.
On a ballot you can vote for as many candidates as you want. In effect you are approving one or many candidates. The result is still first past the post but it allows voters to vote for minor parties as they can also vote for the major party candidate of their choice.

The question I would like to put out to Forumites is what would popular election results would look like under approval voting?

US at large, US states and other national results are all welcome.
Logged

Actually from Australia, registered in ND 'cause I like wide open spaces Smiley


A18
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23836
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

View Profile
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2004, 09:49:01 am »
Ignore

I'm all for approval voting in selecting U.S. Representatives and presidential electors. I think this would really depolarize the nation over time...
Logged
Senator Cynic
Lawrence Watson
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11585
United States


Political Matrix
E: -4.11, S: -6.09

View Profile
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2004, 10:49:59 pm »
Ignore

I'd support it for selection of electors.
Logged

Polkergeist
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 320


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2004, 11:24:18 pm »
Ignore

After perusing old approval ratings from the 2000 election @ pollingreport.com. I estimated the results of a nation wide approval vote for president by using a simple formula:

approve/ (approve + disapprove)

I used the closest CNN/Time Poll to the election on the 4 candidates.

The results are:

Bush: 61.7 %
Gore: 61.3 %
Nader: 45.2 %
Buchanan: 36.8%
« Last Edit: August 14, 2004, 11:25:23 pm by Polkergeist »Logged

Actually from Australia, registered in ND 'cause I like wide open spaces Smiley


Hitchabrut
republicanjew18
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1675


Political Matrix
E: 8.38, S: 7.49

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2004, 11:20:24 am »
Ignore

Approval voting, just like instant runoff voting, lets radical third-party candidates get elected. Unless you're a fasicst or a green, you should be wary of approval voting.
Logged

Brace yourselves for me.

Economic Left/Right: 7.05
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.67
Redefeatbush04
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1496


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2004, 12:50:18 pm »
Ignore

Americans are too stupid for approval voting. Remember BRTD's brother who voted for Peroutka because he was neither Bush nor Kerry, only to find out later what Peroutka stood for. We would have a president Peroutka. DO YOU REALLY WANT A PRESIDENT PEROUTKA? It is a good idea, but we are not ready for it.
Logged

Man is by nature a political animal - Aristotle
A18
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23836
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2004, 01:10:10 pm »
Ignore

Americans are too stupid for approval voting. Remember BRTD's brother who voted for Peroutka because he was neither Bush nor Kerry, only to find out later what Peroutka stood for. We would have a president Peroutka. DO YOU REALLY WANT A PRESIDENT PEROUTKA? It is a good idea, but we are not ready for it.

The majority of people aren't going to vote for Peroutka because his name sounds cool.
Logged
Redefeatbush04
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1496


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2004, 01:20:11 pm »
Ignore

Americans are too stupid for approval voting. Remember BRTD's brother who voted for Peroutka because he was neither Bush nor Kerry, only to find out later what Peroutka stood for. We would have a president Peroutka. DO YOU REALLY WANT A PRESIDENT PEROUTKA? It is a good idea, but we are not ready for it.

The majority of people aren't going to vote for Peroutka because his name sounds cool.

You overestimate the American people, or at least those with 1/5 acre of land.
Logged

Man is by nature a political animal - Aristotle
A18
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23836
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2004, 01:25:59 pm »
Ignore

Do you seriously think approval voting would get Peroutka elected?
Logged
Redefeatbush04
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1496


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2004, 01:27:28 pm »
Ignore

Do you seriously think approval voting would get Peroutka elected?

Do you seriously think people who live in cities (apartments/no land) should not be allowed to vote?
Logged

Man is by nature a political animal - Aristotle
A18
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23836
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

View Profile
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2004, 01:52:45 pm »
Ignore

In one chamber of state legislatures? Of course. Otherwise the legislature is just a tool for them to vote themselves welfare.
Logged
Redefeatbush04
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1496


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2004, 03:12:23 pm »
Ignore

Do you seriously think approval voting would get Peroutka elected?

I think it will lead to much controversy. For example lets pretend the race is between Kerry, Bush, and this dude named Hitler. Let's also pretend no one has ever heard of Hitler. Everyone hates Kerry and Bush so they both end up negative, or if it is simply a question of "do you approve" they end up with maybe 35% approval. No one has heard of Hitler, but a good 36% of the population decide to approve him out of ignorance........ Hitler is now our president.

In one chamber of state legislatures? Of course. Otherwise the legislature is just a tool for them to vote themselves welfare.

Everyone will vote to benefit themselves. The rich will vote for candidates that benefit the rich, and the poor will vote for candidates that benefit the poor.
Logged

Man is by nature a political animal - Aristotle
A18
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23836
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

View Profile
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2004, 03:18:23 pm »
Ignore

By that logic, we should already have Peroutka as president. If the majority of the people hate both candidates, why didn't they vote for Peroutka?

The Constitution should see to it that no group of people is oppressed.
Logged
Redefeatbush04
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1496


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2004, 03:22:13 pm »
Ignore

By that logic, we should already have Peroutka as president. If the majority of the people hate both candidates, why didn't they vote for Peroutka?

Many Kerry/Bush supporters didn't actually approve of their candidate, they just didn't want the other guy to win. It is all about wording. Their was a study done (no i am too lazy to find the source) which found that the candidate whose name was placed first had the advantage. Something as stupid as that can change someones vote. Another issue is who gets on the ballot in which states. If it were just national popular vote, instead of the electoral college, approval voting would make more sense. As I said earlier, it is a good idea, but we are not ready for it.

The Constitution should see to it that no group of people is oppressed.

Even those who don't own 1/5 acre of land?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2004, 03:29:21 pm by Redefeatbush04 »Logged

Man is by nature a political animal - Aristotle
A18
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23836
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

View Profile
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2004, 03:42:31 pm »
Ignore

So why would they just vote for a random other guy on top of their Bush/Kerry vote? It would make sense to vote for a random guy if there was no one else to vote for, but that isn't the case.

Yes. Those people have rights too. Urban control of entire states and their economies is not one of them.
Logged
DaleC76
Full Member
***
Posts: 181


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2004, 04:16:02 pm »
Ignore

I think you should vote for the guy you think should get the job.  Period.
Logged

Redefeatbush04
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1496


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2004, 12:07:23 pm »
Ignore

I do however like the kind of voting we often use on this forum.....where we rank the candidates.
Logged

Man is by nature a political animal - Aristotle
Akno21
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9138
View Profile
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2004, 10:14:30 pm »
Ignore

I do however like the kind of voting we often use on this forum.....where we rank the candidates.

I think that is the best. It eliminates spoliers, for the most part, and yet is not too confusing, like Condorcet.
Logged

A18
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23836
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

View Profile
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2004, 10:28:36 pm »
Ignore

IRV is the worst kind of voting.

Redefeat, what's your serious reason for opposing approval voting? Do you honestly, really, truly believe that it's going to get some random guy elected?
Logged
YRABNNRM
YoungRepub
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10796
United States
Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: -6.09

View Profile
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2004, 05:02:28 pm »
Ignore

IRV is the worst kind of voting.

Redefeat, what's your serious reason for opposing approval voting? Do you honestly, really, truly believe that it's going to get some random guy elected?

Why do you oppose IRV?
Logged
A18
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23836
Political Matrix
E: 9.23, S: -6.35

View Profile
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2004, 05:22:13 pm »
Ignore

Here's an interesting article that sums up my objections:

http://www.electionmethods.org/IRVproblems.htm
Logged
IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble
John Dibble
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18787
Japan


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2004, 03:34:37 pm »
Ignore

I'm for approval voting. To those who think it would allow someone like Peroutka to get elected, it is doubtful. Proportional representation is far more likely to do that(guess how the Nazis got into power).

Approval voting would encourage the media to cover other candidates, so people like Peroutka would be exposed for what they are - extremists. Most conservatives would not vote for him simply because he would be too extreme. You can bet your ass liberals wouldn't vote for him, and libertarians wouldn't be very likely to either. Swing voters would also be scared off in all likeliness, as well as almost all non-christians and homosexuals - the guy probably couldn't get elected president under any decent voting system.

There's a link to a site that explains more about the benefits(and a few drawbacks) of approval voting in my signature. Check it out.
Logged

??????????
StatesRights
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31304
Political Matrix
E: 7.61, S: 0.00

View Profile
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2004, 02:00:57 pm »
Ignore

I'm for approval voting. To those who think it would allow someone like Peroutka to get elected, it is doubtful. Proportional representation is far more likely to do that(guess how the Nazis got into power).

Approval voting would encourage the media to cover other candidates, so people like Peroutka would be exposed for what they are - extremists. Most conservatives would not vote for him simply because he would be too extreme. You can bet your ass liberals wouldn't vote for him, and libertarians wouldn't be very likely to either. Swing voters would also be scared off in all likeliness, as well as almost all non-christians and homosexuals - the guy probably couldn't get elected president under any decent voting system.

There's a link to a site that explains more about the benefits(and a few drawbacks) of approval voting in my signature. Check it out.

Correction. Peroutka is a moderate.
Logged
Redefeatbush04
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1496


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2004, 03:38:45 pm »
Ignore

I'm for approval voting. To those who think it would allow someone like Peroutka to get elected, it is doubtful. Proportional representation is far more likely to do that(guess how the Nazis got into power).

Approval voting would encourage the media to cover other candidates, so people like Peroutka would be exposed for what they are - extremists. Most conservatives would not vote for him simply because he would be too extreme. You can bet your ass liberals wouldn't vote for him, and libertarians wouldn't be very likely to either. Swing voters would also be scared off in all likeliness, as well as almost all non-christians and homosexuals - the guy probably couldn't get elected president under any decent voting system.

There's a link to a site that explains more about the benefits(and a few drawbacks) of approval voting in my signature. Check it out.

Good point Dibble
Logged

Man is by nature a political animal - Aristotle
Hitchabrut
republicanjew18
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1675


Political Matrix
E: 8.38, S: 7.49

View Profile
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2004, 07:39:20 pm »
Ignore

IRV could give a crazy extremist control of our country. I don't mean Bush or Kerry if you view them that way, I mean a new Stalin or Hitler.
Logged

Brace yourselves for me.

Economic Left/Right: 7.05
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.67
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines