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Question: are Mormons Christians?
yes   -27 (57.4%)
no   -20 (42.6%)
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Total Voters: 47

Author Topic: are Mormons Christians?  (Read 16422 times)
Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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« Reply #75 on: February 20, 2008, 11:17:58 am »
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Who were you in your "pre-mortal" existence?

We've been over that.

but you believe you are from Heaven, right?


---

And who is Jesus Christ in the Mormon Church?

The Savior of the world.

sorry, my question wasn't clear:  who was Jesus prior to coming to earth?
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I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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« Reply #76 on: February 20, 2008, 11:16:38 pm »
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but you believe you are from Heaven, right?

I've never referred to it as that, and no the Pre-Mortal existence was not heaven.

then where was this pre-mortal existence?

---

sorry, my question wasn't clear:  who was Jesus prior to coming to earth?

The First Son of God.

and who was Jesus before he was the First Son of God?
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Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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« Reply #77 on: February 22, 2008, 01:21:48 am »
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Deut 4:35 “the LORD is God; besides him there is no other.”

Deut 32:39 “See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me.”

Isa 44:8 “Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one."

Therefore, unless God is a liar or has a bad memory, God was not created by another god, he didn’t begin on another planet as a man who attained godhood, rather he was and is the only God.  Always has been, always will be.

Agreed?

Yes I would.

Mr. Fresh, I'm glad we agreed that God was always God and always will be God and that there will never be another God.

sorry, my question wasn't clear:  who was Jesus prior to coming to earth?

The First Son of God.

So, the follow up question is:  Who was Jesus Christ before be became the Son of God?

The way I see it, the basic definition of Christianity is to believe in the Deity of Jesus Christ, and in order for Jesus Christ to be Deity, he had to always be God, because as the above verses make clear, God always existed.  Since created beings didn't always exist, they can not be God...which means the idea that Jesus (who is God) is somehow the spiritual brother of Satan is nonsense.  Such a statement robs Jesus of his Deity as if he was once on an equal level with Satan and spawns the idea that Jesus was a created being that attained godhood. 

The created being who first got the idea of attaining godhood was Satan himself:

Isa 14 12 How you have fallen from heaven,
       O Lucifer, son of the dawn!
       You have been cast down to the earth,
       you who once laid low the nations!

 13 You said in your heart,
       "I will ascend to heaven;
       I will raise my throne
       above the stars of God;
       I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
       on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. 
 14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
       I will make myself like the Most High."

 15 But you are brought down to the grave,
       to the depths of the pit.

Since it was Satan who first aspired to attain godhood, is it little wonder the rest of Christianity is shocked by the beliefs of Joseph Smith?
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Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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« Reply #78 on: February 22, 2008, 01:06:16 pm »
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So, the follow up question is:  Who was Jesus Christ before be became the Son of God?

The way I see it, the basic definition of Christianity is to believe in the Deity of Jesus Christ, and in order for Jesus Christ to be Deity, he had to always be God, because as the above verses make clear, God always existed.  Since created beings didn't always exist, they can not be God...which means the idea that Jesus (who is God) is somehow the spiritual brother of Satan is nonsense.  Such a statement robs Jesus of his Deity as if he was once on an equal level with Satan and spawns the idea that Jesus was a created being that attained godhood. 

See your premise that Jesus is God the Father is where we differ.  The LDS Church does not subscribe to the Trinitarian doctrine that the Father, the Son, and the Holy spirit are one eternal God.  The LDS Church affirms that they are separate beings, in one Godhead, and one in purpose not substance.  And I challenge you to bring me a scripture where 'trinity' is mentioned.

So if God the Father, and Jesus Christ are indeed different persons, and since God did create all things and people it stands that Jesus Christ and humanity are brothers and sisters.

So, to you, God created Jesus, who in turn somehow became a god himself.  Which contradicts our previous ageement that there is only one God and that one God always existed and that there will never be another god other than God.

And scripture says that Jesus created all things:

Col 1
15 Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by Jesus all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 Jesus is before all things, and in Jesus all things hold together. 18And Jesus is the head of the body, the church; Jesus is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything Jesus might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in Jesus, 20and through Jesus to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through Jesus’ blood, shed on the cross.  [pronoun he was replaced with Jesus throughout]

---


  I also have this question to pose, where did Satan come from?  He is a "Fallen Angel" I presume is your belief, so where did he come from?  God created all things so it stands to reason that he created Lucifer as well.

yes, God did create Satan

---

I have never made a statement, and certainly the Church hasn't, that Satan is on the same level as Jesus Christ.  He is in the Godhead, he is the Savior and Redeemer of the world, by him and through him humanity is saved.  He is the mediator between justice and mercy.  Satan on the other hand is the antithesis of everything I've mentioned.

well, at some point in the past, if you believe Jesus and Satan were both created and were brothers, then you're saying they were at one time on the same level.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2008, 01:19:24 pm by jmfcst »Logged

Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
ilikeverin
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« Reply #79 on: February 22, 2008, 07:05:15 pm »
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So, I'll cut to the chase:  This line of questioning is to determine if you are capable of critiquing church leadership when you consider that they are in error.

I'd like to see you make some critique of the Bible, even a literary one.
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« Reply #80 on: March 19, 2009, 12:29:01 pm »
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Wow, just found this. Can't believe yes is winning.
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« Reply #81 on: March 19, 2009, 09:01:23 pm »
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An emphatic NO
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My earlier comment notwithstanding, I do think that the site would be better off if Inks left his position. (The fact that the village idiot has dropped in to express his support for him only confirms this.)
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« Reply #82 on: March 19, 2009, 11:41:01 pm »
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As far as I'm concerned, anyone who subscribes to Christ as a divine savior is a "Christian."  I realize that there are other definitions that entail the Trinity.  I don't see why anyone cares much.  Identity obsession is less important, I'd hope, than actual religion.  To the uninitiated, it seems semantic.
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« Reply #83 on: March 27, 2009, 12:52:43 am »
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By accepting the Book of Mormon as a sacred text, Mormons are heretics.

Not that there's anything evil in that in itself.
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« Reply #84 on: March 27, 2009, 01:17:25 am »
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If they want to be.
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« Reply #85 on: March 27, 2009, 05:06:47 pm »
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By accepting the Book of Mormon as a sacred text, Mormons are heretics.

And that means what exactly? A heretic is only someone who's decided to believe something other than the established theology. Pretty much every Christian alive today is a heretic relative to some other form of Christian thought. Are you a Protestant? You're a heretic. Are you a Catholic? I'm pretty sure some Catholics from earlier days would call you a heretic. Unless you can prove that you follow the exact dogma and whatnot that the direct disciples of Jesus followed, you're a heretic. And even if you do, you're still a heretic from a Jewish perspective.

Me, I'll just stick to being an infidel.
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« Reply #86 on: March 27, 2009, 07:01:03 pm »
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For their belief in Christ, they are Christians.
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