Canada 2008: Official Thread

[Smid]

He's one of the best the NDP has.

A sad comment about the NDP, but I digress . . .

I think the silence in that interview was a technical problem, not a fumble. It still doesn't look good, but it's not something Regan can be held responsible for.

As for Dion's video, it's quite clear that he was having trouble comprehending the question, but as to whether that's a problem with his English or a problem with his hearing is unknown. He hasn't shown this kind of response to equally vague questions in the past; this episode stands as an outlier in the spectrum of Dion's performances, rather than the norm. I suspect that if he really had that level of difficulty with his English comprehension he would not have risen as far as he has. Also, a hearing impairment would make it difficult for him to learn to speak another language, so this might explain the persistence of his thick French accent despite so much exposure to English.

Whether or not you like Dion, it's not appropriate to mock him for a physical impairment. Even if you think it disqualifies him for the job, using it as an attack is crude and malicious. The Tories are treading on thin ice by making an issue of this (remember their attack on Chretien in 93?). This isn't the same situation, of course, but it's something they should have left to the media to inflate and repeat. It leaves a bad taste in people's mouths and will not reflect well on Harper in the long run.

It has nothing to do with a physical impairment - that's nothing but Liberal spin. He was asked the question, he attempted to answer, he says "sorry, can I restart, I don't understand?" he gets reasked the question, he fumbles again, he again says he doesn't understand... this isn't him not hearing. If he didn't hear, he would say "could you say that again, I didn't quite hear it" - this is him fumbling.

[cp]

I watched the video, I saw the same thing you did. He clearly had trouble comprehending the question and, as I said, it's unknown as to whether it's a physical impairment or poor comprehension skills. Not being able to hear a question clearly would make it difficult to understand, so your contention that it's obviously NOT a disability isn't really valid.

Anyways, the thing that really bothers me is CTV's decision to air it in the first place. Moments like that are regularly withheld, whether or not the interviewee asks for it. I worked at the CBC archives one summer and saw plenty of 'blooper' footage of politicians, artists, and writers stumbling over their words and asking for retakes. Dion's was far from the worst I've seen and he wasn't out of line asking for it to be withheld. Giving Dion the benefit of the doubt, he may have asked for so many retakes only because he knew it wasn't a live performance and he had the option for do-overs, the previous incarnations of which would not be aired.

This kind of thing is usually a tempest in a teapot but since it comes at the start of the last news cycle before the election it's more important. Just out of curiosity I checked out the blogs to see how this is being digested and there's quite a division of opinion, among even the partisans: Tories saying this is a cheap shot, Liberals saying this was a huge gaffe, etc. Such division indicates that this probably won't change any minds, just reinforce existing opinions. The election will still be decided by the voters flipping a coin between the NDP/Green and the Liberals. 4 Days to go!

[Hash]

The Globe and Mail has endorsed the Conservatives.

That seals it, I'm not reading them anymore either. I gave up on the Citizen after they endorsed John Dumbass in 2007.

[Hatman 🍁]

Who will the Toronto Star endorse? Am I naive to think that there's a possibility they wont endorse the Liberals?

[cp]

No, not naive. But that doesn't mean they won't endorse the Liberals. If they didn't pull their support in 2006 there's no way they'd do it now.

[cinyc]

He's one of the best the NDP has.

A sad comment about the NDP, but I digress . . .

I think the silence in the Regan interview was a technical problem, not a fumble. It still doesn't look good, but it's not something Regan can be held responsible for.

As for Dion's video, it's quite clear that he was having trouble comprehending the question, but as to whether that's a problem with his English or a problem with his hearing is unknown. He hasn't shown this kind of response to equally vague questions in the past; this episode stands as an outlier rather than the norm. I suspect that if he really had that level of difficulty with his English comprehension he would not have risen as far as he has. Also, a hearing impairment would make it difficult for him to learn to speak another language, so this might explain the persistence of his thick French accent despite so much exposure to English.

Whether or not you like Dion, it's not appropriate to mock him for a physical impairment. Even if you think it disqualifies him for the job, using it as an attack is crude and malicious. The Tories are treading on thin ice by making an issue of this (remember their attack on Chretien in 93?). This isn't the same situation, of course, but it's something they should have left to the media to inflate and repeat. Even if it works, this kind of thing leaves a bad taste in people's mouths.

I agree the Tories should have observed the first rule in politics: when your opponent is destroying himself, just step out of the way.  Piling on can boomerang.

But come on.  Do you REALLY think Mr. Dion couldn't hear the question?  He heard his handler well enough - and his handler was off-camera, not sitting right in front of him.

[Hash]

I can't wait until this whole thing is over.

[Hash]

Nanos has the Tories fourth in Quebec behind the Libs and NDP, who are tied. The Bloc is at 42%, basically its 2006 level.

[SPQR]

LOL at Dion's interview,what a joke.

[cp]

But come on.  Do you REALLY think Mr. Dion couldn't hear the question?  He heard his handler well enough - and his handler was off-camera, not sitting right in front of him.

Like I said, it was unclear. Hearing disabilities can manifest themselves in lots of ways so it's completely plausible that he had difficulty hearing the words. If he says it's a hearing disability I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt (if he's lying, hopefully he'd be caught and excoriated for such a despicable fraud).

That said, his fumble was probably a combination of poor hearing and poor comprehension. The question asked was somewhat awkwardly phrased, as you pointed out, and it's plausible to imagine Dion hearing that phrasing and thinking to himself 'that doesn't sound right' and not quite knowing whether it's his hearing, his comprehension, or the interviewers poor grammar that was at work.

Regardless of what it was, on a purely human level I'm inclined to cut Dion, and anyone else with a similar flub, a bit of slack. Election campaigns are grueling and, given the forum, (it wasn't live and he was under the impression he'd get unlimited do-overs) Dion didn't commit a serious error in judgment. Appearances, yes, but not judgment.

As for the polls, any within-margin-of-error shifts from now until election day probably don't reflect any real shifts on the ground. The Tory slump/Liberal recovery has basically reset the map to what it was for most of the past two years. The only question left is whether NDP support will hold till Tuesday.  If it does then Harper gets another mandate. If not, then it's Prime Minister Dion. Not great choices for a leaning Dipper, I might add. I don't envy the choice they have to make.

Oh, and I suspect the Green vote will drop by about 1/3 on election day from where it is now (12% or so) because of strategic voting.

[MaxQue]

Nanos Canada

CPC: 33 (0)
LPC: 27 (-2)
NDP: 22 (+2)
BQ: 10 (0)
GPC: 8 (+1)

Nanos Quebec

BQ: 42 (0)
LPC: 19 (0)
NDP: 19 (+2)
CPC: 16 (-3)
GPC: 4 (+1)

EKOS Canada

CPC: 36 (+1)
LPC: 24 (0)
NDP: 19 (-1)
GPC: 11 (0)
BQ: 10 (0)

EKOS Quebec

BQ: 41 (0)
LPC: 20 (-1)
CPC: 18 (+1)
NDP: 14 (-1)
GPC: 8 (+2)

Harris-Decima Canada

CPC: 34 (+2)
LPC: 26 (-1)
NDP: 18 (-1)
GPC: 12 (0)
BQ: 9 (+1)

Harris-Decima Quebec

BQ: 40 (+4)
CPC: 24 (+2)
LPC: 22 (-7)
NDP: 7 (-1)
GPC: 5 (+1)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If that lot be anything to go by, I'd like Nanos to be the most accurate again...

btw, currently working on a really, really bad riding outline map all of me own. So bad that it's basically impressionistic. But so what.

[Хahar 🤔]

Political impressionism? I'd love to see that.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Appallingly innacurate in places, but, meh, whatever. That's not really the point... Edmonton is especially awful... and the general love for straight lines makes a mockery of things as well... oh well...

...oh and maps of the grey areas (in the same style) will be up tomorrow-ish).

[Хahar 🤔]

Yes, that is a fair bit worse than most of your work. But still far better than anything I could but together.

[Hatman 🍁]

Appallingly innacurate in places, but, meh, whatever. That's not really the point... Edmonton is especially awful... and the general love for straight lines makes a mockery of things as well... oh well...

...oh and maps of the grey areas (in the same style) will be up tomorrow-ish).

lol @ Northern Ontario

NDP: 22 (+2)

Jee-zus

[Filuwaúrdjan]

lol @ Northern Ontario

Yeah, lakes and straight lines everywhere. Eventually decided not to bother with the lakes. Straight lines don't cease being a problem. Aaaaagh. Um. But at least you can't tell where everything is, which is something, I guess.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yes, that is a fair bit worse than most of your work. But still far better than anything I could but together.

All the lines are more-or-less my own work (it's usually *saner* to just look for blank maps and make changes to them, but I couldn't find an appropriate one this time so...) which really shows up in some places (U.S border for example). And it was done in about three hours of tea-fueled madness late at night...

[minionofmidas]

Anyways, the thing that really bothers me is CTV's decision to air it in the first place. Moments like that are regularly withheld, whether or not the interviewee asks for it.

True.

I agree the Tories should have observed the first rule in politics: when your opponent is destroying himself, just step out of the way.  Piling on can boomerang.

True.

Just out of curiosity I checked out the blogs to see how this is being digested and there's quite a division of opinion, among even the partisans: Tories saying this is a cheap shot, Liberals saying this was a huge gaffe, etc. Such division indicates that this probably won't change any minds, just reinforce existing opinions.

Eh, no. If all the Tories were saying it's a huge gaffe, all the Liberals saying it's nothing - and not just the partisan hacks. including the leaners in their respective camps - then that would indicate this won't change any minds. If opinions are divided on all sides, that basically means it's wholly unpredictable how far this goes and in which direction.

[Hatman 🍁]

hmm... Layton is the most popular leader in Quebec and Atlantic Canada.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

hmm... Layton is the most popular leader in Quebec and Atlantic Canada.

Well he is a Quebecker...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

First set of insets...



Some are better than others...

[Hatman 🍁]

how are you making these, anyways? Some look rather well done, but others are off. Like Ottawa...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

how are you making these, anyways?

Basically they're sketches from other maps stiched together. Or something like that. Programme used is Paint, because I'm cheap.

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Yeah, that one's awful...

[Hatman 🍁]

no shame in using paint. That's what I use