Bush Leads in Georgia by Only 3%

[MarkDel]

Zachman,

Let's get a few things straight. First of all, I'm MUCH tougher than Robert Novak.

As for your "lies" comment...back in 1989 I had the good fortune to meet the great Lee Atwater at a Republican Party function in Arlington, VA. where he was opening up his new restaurant. In the course of a conversation about hardcore politics, he said to me, "Remember something kid, always get the facts right, never LIE in an attack ad. There's no need to lie when the inference does the dirty work for you."

And while I do play HARDBALL politics, I have not and have never lied in this forum or anyplace else.

In your post, you said "lies about the war..."

I demand that you show me where I lied or posted incorrect factual data. You may disagree with my opinions or my conclusions from the data I post, but WHERE have I ever lied....SHOW ME.

[MarkDel]

Come one Zachman, I saw you were signed in here, at least have the guts to come out of your hole and show me an example of me lying about the war as you claimed.

[sgpine]

Sgpine,

Yeah, and The Black Helicopters are everywhere, we just can't see them.

Give me a break.

You are implying the voter fraud doesn't exist? Have you studied the history of our (or any other country)? Voter fraud has been an issue in our nation since it began. Rutherford Hayes anyone?

This difference is now voter fraud is invisible and undetectable.

In addition, rather than poisoning the well with sweeping remarks that don't address the issue I present, how about talking about what I posted. The points I list are not rumors, but well researched facts. Now, if you want to agrue that all the points I mention don't have a broader impact on the issue, fine, I'm waiting for your reasoning.

But the following points are not opinions:

The CEO of Diebold is a Republican fundraiser who wrote, in a published letter, that he was committed to making sure Bush got Ohios electoral votes. There source code was downloaded, along with 3 years worth of internal memos. There was a folder in the downloaded files titled "robgeorgia". Gore did receive -90,000 votes from a precinct in Florida, a mistake that was later corrected. Primary results from the 2002 election were available on Diebold's website before the polls closed, even though it is illegal for Diebold to access the votes before the polls close. The downloaded memos show that people at Diebold have used different machines to get certified than the ones they used at the election. There is no paper trail for Diebold touch-screen machines. There is no password or accountability problems for anyone who would like to change vote totals transmitted to Diebolds server.

Draw your own conclusions, but don't poison the well.

[Gustaf]

Sgpine,

Yeah, and The Black Helicopters are everywhere, we just can't see them.

Give me a break.

You are implying the voter fraud doesn't exist? Have you studied the history of our (or any other country)? Voter fraud has been an issue in our nation since it began. Rutherford Hayes anyone?

This difference is now voter fraud is invisible and undetectable.

In addition, rather than poisoning the well with sweeping remarks that don't address the issue I present, how about talking about what I posted. The points I list are not rumors, but well researched facts. Now, if you want to agrue that all the points I mention don't have a broader impact on the issue, fine, I'm waiting for your reasoning.

But the following points are not opinions:

The CEO of Diebold is a Republican fundraiser who wrote, in a published letter, that he was committed to making sure Bush got Ohios electoral votes. There source code was downloaded, along with 3 years worth of internal memos. There was a folder in the downloaded files titled "robgeorgia". Gore did receive -90,000 votes from a precinct in Florida, a mistake that was later corrected. Primary results from the 2002 election were available on Diebold's website before the polls closed, even though it is illegal for Diebold to access the votes before the polls close. The downloaded memos show that people at Diebold have used different machines to get certified than the ones they used at the election. There is no paper trail for Diebold touch-screen machines. There is no password or accountability problems for anyone who would like to change vote totals transmitted to Diebolds server.

Draw your own conclusions, but don't poison the well.

We even had some voter fraud in Sweden 2 years ago... but it didn't affect the election, they THINK. But it's limited to getting retired people to vote for the SAP, not worse than that...

[opebo]

Sgpine,

Yeah, and The Black Helicopters are everywhere, we just can't see them.

Give me a break.

You are implying the voter fraud doesn't exist? Have you studied the history of our (or any other country)? Voter fraud has been an issue in our nation since it began. Rutherford Hayes anyone?

This difference is now voter fraud is invisible and undetectable.

In addition, rather than poisoning the well with sweeping remarks that don't address the issue I present, how about talking about what I posted. The points I list are not rumors, but well researched facts. Now, if you want to agrue that all the points I mention don't have a broader impact on the issue, fine, I'm waiting for your reasoning.

But the following points are not opinions:

The CEO of Diebold is a Republican fundraiser who wrote, in a published letter, that he was committed to making sure Bush got Ohios electoral votes. There source code was downloaded, along with 3 years worth of internal memos. There was a folder in the downloaded files titled "robgeorgia". Gore did receive -90,000 votes from a precinct in Florida, a mistake that was later corrected. Primary results from the 2002 election were available on Diebold's website before the polls closed, even though it is illegal for Diebold to access the votes before the polls close. The downloaded memos show that people at Diebold have used different machines to get certified than the ones they used at the election. There is no paper trail for Diebold touch-screen machines. There is no password or accountability problems for anyone who would like to change vote totals transmitted to Diebolds server.

Draw your own conclusions, but don't poison the well.

You know, the conspiracy theories of leftists always make me feel hopeful.

[zachman]

Slimy Tactics By Which Party?
« on: February 13, 2004, 06:28:31 pm »    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The thread on John Kerry and his alleged affair has been very interesting, but the most interesting thing BY FAR has been the comments by the poster WAKIE.

WAKIE has said over and over again that this is another example of the Republican slime machine and how he's amazed that rank and file Republicans are so quick to buy into such horrible tactics. I find Wakie's comments INCREDIBLE.

Wakie, here are just a few of the Democratic Party's proud moments from campaigns in recent memory.

1. Presidential candidate Howard Dean actually floats the theory that it's possible that President Bush had advance knowledge of and/or was responsible for the 9/11 attacks.

2. Beloved Democratic Senator Ted Kennedy says the War in Iraq was a concocted by Republican strategists in Texas for political gain, thus implying that President Bush would gladly kill US soldiers to win an election.

3. Democratic Congressman Jim McDermott says he would believe Saddam Hussein was telling the truth before George Bush.

4. Numerous Democrats say the President was AWOL in the National Guard when there is no record to suggest this and he WAS granted an honorable discharge. Funny thing is that a person cannot be AWOL from the National Guard unless their unit is called up for active duty, and since Bush's unit never was called up, it's IMPOSSIBLE for him to be AWOL.

5. Democratic Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich states that it is official Bush policy to target civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq.

6. Numerous Democrats call Bush a Nazi, then Democratic fundraisers Moveon.org run a commercial where Bush morphs into Hitler and no prominent Democrats condemn Moveon.org.

7. Former Democratic Presidential candidate Al Gore calls Bush a traitor to his country in a speech less than a week ago and no Democrat disavows this.

8. In Texas, The Democratic Party runs an ad claiming that because Republcians don't support Hate Crime legislation, more black people like James Byrd will be murdered. Byrd was killed by racists who dragged him behind the back of their truck. The ad ignores the fact that the Byrd killers were eligible for the death penalty even without Hate Crime legislation. What are they gonna do, kill the guys twice?

9. In Missouri, the Democratic Party runs an ad saying that every time you cast a vote for a Republican, you cast a vote for the burning of another black church.

And it's the Republicans who engage in slime? Perhaps you can find me an example of a prominent Republican official who called John Kerry a Nazi, or a traitor, or implied that he was behind the mass murder of thousands of Americans?

The Democratic Party has been getting a FREE PASS from this administration for the past several months as Bush and his crew sit back and try to "take the high road." Well, with dropping poll numbers and a second term in jeopardy for the first time since early 2001, it's about time that Bush, Rove and the rest of the boys take my advice and start fighting back against the vermin like Howard Dean and Ted Kennedy, and of course the king of all vermin, Democratic National Chairman Terry McAuliffe.




MarkDel, I couldn't figure out how to quote from another post, but I found some mischarecterizations and lies I must report from above. Some of these examples I have never heard of before, and I will ignore them. In this post I will only discuss reason 2.


2. Beloved Democratic Senator Ted Kennedy says the War in Iraq was a concocted by Republican strategists in Texas for political gain, thus implying that President Bush would gladly kill US soldiers to win an election.

Not all of Kennedy's statement is true. I think the initial planning was done in both Texas and Washington. Paul O'Neil has stated that planning a war in Iraq has been a Bush administration goal since he was inaugurated. Wes Clark recieved phone calls from administration officials after September 11th, regarding how the administration could tie 9/11 to Iraq. In May of 2002 (I got to visit the pentagon just before this made press) the administration released that they were planning an invasion of Iraq to be executed early next year. The Bush administration has clearly exhibited a political neccesity to go to war (watch how the manipulated the press in early 2003).

Bush and other republicans have said we needed to go to war to support our troops.  It is not supporting our troops by sending them into war.

You would have to be hypnotized to believe President Bush has not used the war for political gain.

[Gustaf]

Sgpine,

Yeah, and The Black Helicopters are everywhere, we just can't see them.

Give me a break.

You are implying the voter fraud doesn't exist? Have you studied the history of our (or any other country)? Voter fraud has been an issue in our nation since it began. Rutherford Hayes anyone?

This difference is now voter fraud is invisible and undetectable.

In addition, rather than poisoning the well with sweeping remarks that don't address the issue I present, how about talking about what I posted. The points I list are not rumors, but well researched facts. Now, if you want to agrue that all the points I mention don't have a broader impact on the issue, fine, I'm waiting for your reasoning.

But the following points are not opinions:

The CEO of Diebold is a Republican fundraiser who wrote, in a published letter, that he was committed to making sure Bush got Ohios electoral votes. There source code was downloaded, along with 3 years worth of internal memos. There was a folder in the downloaded files titled "robgeorgia". Gore did receive -90,000 votes from a precinct in Florida, a mistake that was later corrected. Primary results from the 2002 election were available on Diebold's website before the polls closed, even though it is illegal for Diebold to access the votes before the polls close. The downloaded memos show that people at Diebold have used different machines to get certified than the ones they used at the election. There is no paper trail for Diebold touch-screen machines. There is no password or accountability problems for anyone who would like to change vote totals transmitted to Diebolds server.

Draw your own conclusions, but don't poison the well.

You know, the conspiracy theories of leftists always make me feel hopeful.

You don't see negative consequenses of voter fraud?

[opebo]

Sgpine,

Yeah, and The Black Helicopters are everywhere, we just can't see them.

Give me a break.

You are implying the voter fraud doesn't exist? Have you studied the history of our (or any other country)? Voter fraud has been an issue in our nation since it began. Rutherford Hayes anyone?

This difference is now voter fraud is invisible and undetectable.

In addition, rather than poisoning the well with sweeping remarks that don't address the issue I present, how about talking about what I posted. The points I list are not rumors, but well researched facts. Now, if you want to agrue that all the points I mention don't have a broader impact on the issue, fine, I'm waiting for your reasoning.

But the following points are not opinions:

The CEO of Diebold is a Republican fundraiser who wrote, in a published letter, that he was committed to making sure Bush got Ohios electoral votes. There source code was downloaded, along with 3 years worth of internal memos. There was a folder in the downloaded files titled "robgeorgia". Gore did receive -90,000 votes from a precinct in Florida, a mistake that was later corrected. Primary results from the 2002 election were available on Diebold's website before the polls closed, even though it is illegal for Diebold to access the votes before the polls close. The downloaded memos show that people at Diebold have used different machines to get certified than the ones they used at the election. There is no paper trail for Diebold touch-screen machines. There is no password or accountability problems for anyone who would like to change vote totals transmitted to Diebolds server.

Draw your own conclusions, but don't poison the well.

You know, the conspiracy theories of leftists always make me feel hopeful.

You don't see negative consequenses of voter fraud?

Of course, but the point was it makes me hopeful about the outcome.  There's often been a lot of fraud on both sides, but I suspect my side tends not to keep up very well.  Its encouraging that the left thinks we do.

[Gustaf]

Sgpine,

Yeah, and The Black Helicopters are everywhere, we just can't see them.

Give me a break.

You are implying the voter fraud doesn't exist? Have you studied the history of our (or any other country)? Voter fraud has been an issue in our nation since it began. Rutherford Hayes anyone?

This difference is now voter fraud is invisible and undetectable.

In addition, rather than poisoning the well with sweeping remarks that don't address the issue I present, how about talking about what I posted. The points I list are not rumors, but well researched facts. Now, if you want to agrue that all the points I mention don't have a broader impact on the issue, fine, I'm waiting for your reasoning.

But the following points are not opinions:

The CEO of Diebold is a Republican fundraiser who wrote, in a published letter, that he was committed to making sure Bush got Ohios electoral votes. There source code was downloaded, along with 3 years worth of internal memos. There was a folder in the downloaded files titled "robgeorgia". Gore did receive -90,000 votes from a precinct in Florida, a mistake that was later corrected. Primary results from the 2002 election were available on Diebold's website before the polls closed, even though it is illegal for Diebold to access the votes before the polls close. The downloaded memos show that people at Diebold have used different machines to get certified than the ones they used at the election. There is no paper trail for Diebold touch-screen machines. There is no password or accountability problems for anyone who would like to change vote totals transmitted to Diebolds server.

Draw your own conclusions, but don't poison the well.

You know, the conspiracy theories of leftists always make me feel hopeful.

You don't see negative consequenses of voter fraud?

Of course, but the point was it makes me hopeful about the outcome.  There's often been a lot of fraud on both sides, but I suspect my side tends not to keep up very well.  Its encouraging that the left thinks we do.

You should bve able to, you have more economic resources.

[MarkDel]

Zachman,

OK, in another thread I stated that you were an intelligent young man and I wished I could convince you to be a Republican. Please stop making posts like your last one in this thread, or you'll prove me a poor judge of your intellectual capacities.

Where do I start...you said I lied...I said prove it. You come back with a statement I made about Kennedy that was true...Ted Kennedy DID say those things...you even admit it. How is that a lie on my part? Perhaps you misunderstand wha Kennedy was trying to imply with his comments. He was trying to imply that George Bush purposefully allowed the killing of American soldiers just to win an election...can he PROVE this? Of course not, and that was my point...how is that a lie???

And as for the planning of the war on the comments you made...plain silly.

Your three main points:

1. Paul O'Neill said that a war on Iraq was discussed before 9/11...NO SH*T...of course it was. The Bush administration was acting on the official policy of regime change as put in place by the previous (Clinton) Presidential administration. Of course Bush discussed war in Iraq before 9/11, so did Clinton as he bombed them numerous times in the 1990's.

2. Wesley Clark said he received a phone call a few days after 9/11 telling him that we plan to pin this on Iraq...have you really examined this or just took Clark on his word, because his two versions of this "phone cal" have been thoroughly discredited. When Clark first told the story he stated that he received a phone call from someone in the Bush administration, but a few days later he was pressed about this on Meet The Press and conceded that it was not a Bush administration official. He then stated that the phone call came from a person he knows who works for a Think Tank on Middle Eastern Studies in Toronto, Canada....the only problem...there are no Muslim Think Tanks in Toronto. I could play CUT AND PASTE with proof of this, but it might do you some good to do some real research before you post.

3. You have to be stupid to not see that Bush used this war for political gain...look...that's an opinion that neither of us could ever prove either way.

So like I said, show me where I lied...not just an opinion that you chose not to believe....show me an actual lie...you can't.

[MarkDel]

Sgpine,

While I am very familiar with the history of voter fraud in this country, some examples fairly well established like Hays/Tilden, and others less obvious like Kennedy/Nixon, there is quite a difference between saying that certain ballot stuffing took place and the belief in a well planned, nationwide Republican conspiracy through Diebold that you describe.

Yes, I have seen dozens of internet reports about Diebold and the "facts" you talk about in your post. Now we enter into shaky territory, because in the past, people like us could rely on journalists as being fairly reliable sources of factual data. But the internet has changed all of that, and now any moron with a website and a good number of hits can turn "theory" into "fact" as people begin to retell their story on internet chat forums and the like.

The only fact that you printed is that the owner of Diebold is in fact a Republican...that is the only undisputed fact. As for the other information, ask yourself this...if this were true, don't you think it would be a regular story over and over and over again on ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN...or printed in the Washington Post, New York Times, etc.... This would be a MAJOR DAILY topic if you actually had a Diebold official stating that he INTENDED TO FIX ELECTIONS!!! Do you really think that left wing media pundits wouldn't be talking about this over and over and over again if they really believed it??? When CNN or ABC does a story where they produce video or a memo of these comments by the Diebold official, then I'll believe it was possible. And I won't believe it has actually happened until I see REAL proof that it took place.

Until then, this voter machine issue is best left to the political equivalents of the Black Helicopter crowd...

[sgpine]

Sgpine,

While I am very familiar with the history of voter fraud in this country, some examples fairly well established like Hays/Tilden, and others less obvious like Kennedy/Nixon, there is quite a difference between saying that certain ballot stuffing took place and the belief in a well planned, nationwide Republican conspiracy through Diebold that you describe.

Yes, I have seen dozens of internet reports about Diebold and the "facts" you talk about in your post. Now we enter into shaky territory, because in the past, people like us could rely on journalists as being fairly reliable sources of factual data. But the internet has changed all of that, and now any moron with a website and a good number of hits can turn "theory" into "fact" as people begin to retell their story on internet chat forums and the like.

The only fact that you printed is that the owner of Diebold is in fact a Republican...that is the only undisputed fact. As for the other information, ask yourself this...if this were true, don't you think it would be a regular story over and over and over again on ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN...or printed in the Washington Post, New York Times, etc.... This would be a MAJOR DAILY topic if you actually had a Diebold official stating that he INTENDED TO FIX ELECTIONS!!! Do you really think that left wing media pundits wouldn't be talking about this over and over and over again if they really believed it??? When CNN or ABC does a story where they produce video or a memo of these comments by the Diebold official, then I'll believe it was possible. And I won't believe it has actually happened until I see REAL proof that it took place.

Until then, this voter machine issue is best left to the political equivalents of the Black Helicopter crowd...

Ok...real proof...may take me a day or two to round up all the accounts I've read, but here is a start:

1)
FROM: The Associated Press State & Local Wire
September 10, 2003, Wednesday, BC cycle
SECTION: Business News
LENGTH: 782 words
HEADLINE: Apparent security hole in primary highlights danger of electronic voting
BYLINE: By RACHEL KONRAD, AP Technology Writer
DATELINE: SAN JOSE, Calif.

"The strange case of an election tally that appears to have popped up on the Internet hours before polls closed is casting new doubts about the trustworthiness of electronic voting machines. During San Luis Obispo County's March 2002 primary, absentee vote tallies were apparently sent to an Internet site operated by Diebold Election Systems Inc., the maker of the voting machines used in the election. At least that's what timestamps on digital records showed....

After polls close, results are sent to a central server via modem. Anytime modems are involved, hackers get an opportunity to intercept data, computer security experts say.

March said he found absentee ballot totals from 57 of 164 San Luis Obispo County precincts in an easily accessible File Transfer Protocol site operated by North Canton, Ohio-based Diebold. The votes were time-stamped at 3:31 p.m. on March 5, 2002 - more than four hours before polls closed.

By law, election officials cannot release tallies until voting is finished - typically 8 p.m. on election day. Activists discovered the data in January.

Diebold, which won't say when the data showed up on the site, acknowledged the incident and says it is investigating how the data ended up on a public Internet site."

2) NY TIMES Article regarding the leaking of internal memos:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/25/magazine/25COPYRIGHT.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5070&en=bb732b740ece0255&ex=1076994000

Note that Diebold tried to sue the students regarding the release of the memos, so these aren't just something someone made up.

You can view the memos here: http://chroot.net/s/lists/

Some of the fun memos are here: http://www.princeton.edu/~cpence/diebold/

3) Researchers at the Information Security Institute at John Hopkins study the hacked source code, and find it wholy unreliable

http://avirubin.com/vote.pdf

Conclusions reported in this NY TIMES article:
The New York Times
July 24, 2003, Thursday, Late Edition - Final
SECTION: Section A;  Page 16;  Column 1;  National Desk
LENGTH: 841 words
HEADLINE: Computer Voting Is Open to Easy Fraud, Experts Say
BYLINE:  By JOHN SCHWARTZ

"The software that runs many high-tech voting machines contains serious flaws that would allow voters to cast extra votes and permit poll workers to alter ballots without being detected, computer security researchers said yesterday.

"We found some stunning, stunning flaws," said Aviel D. Rubin, technical director of the Information Security Institute at Johns Hopkins University, who led a team that examined the software from Diebold Election Systems, which has about 33,000 voting machines operating in the United States."
.....
"The software was initially obtained by critics of electronic voting, who discovered it on a Diebold Internet site in January. This is the first review of the software by recognized computer security experts.

A spokesman for Diebold, Joe Richardson, said the company could not comment in detail until it had seen the full report. He said that the software on the site was "about a year old" and that "if there were problems with it, the code could have been rectified or changed" since then. The company, he said, puts its software through rigorous testing."
.....
"But Douglas W. Jones, an associate professor of computer science at the University of Iowa, said he was shocked to discover flaws cited in Mr. Rubin's paper that he had mentioned to the system's developers about five years ago as a state elections official.

"To find that such flaws have not been corrected in half a decade is awful," Professor Jones said.

Peter G. Neumann, an expert in computer security at SRI International, said the Diebold code was "just the tip of the iceberg" of problems with electronic voting systems.

"This is an iceberg that needs to be hacked at a good bit," Mr. Neumann said, "so this is a step forward."

---
I'll put some more stories up when I get some more time

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I posted an article on alledged fraud in GA and AL in the old Forum.

[sgpine]

Oh yeah, and as far a O'Dell comments here's just one of the hundreds of news stories that covered his comments:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/CFD89C045E62484986256E2C0018A8E0?OpenDocument&Headline=The+dangers+of+high-tech+voting

"I am also uncomfortable with the probability that companies that develop, install and manage these balloting systems may have a political agenda. The most recent example is at Diebold Election Systems. Walden W. O'Dell, CEO of Diebold, wrote in a fund-raising letter for Republicans, "I am committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

Just google news search for 'O'Dell' and 'Diebold' and you'll find plenty of other references regarding this comment.

[GOPman]

Zachman and GWBfan, I don't think the true GA numbers are this close.  But I don't think Bush will have another landslide (55%+) here in Nov.

Like I said, I think the closeness of many of these state and national polls is more representative of the national deadlock the country is currently experiencing.

It may also mean that both Bush and the Dem will have to campaign more than their strategists would have liked in states that should be considered "safe" for them.

I'm sorry QQQQQQ, all this means is that the media is so desparate to show Bush as weak. He is not, mark my words. They are outraged that he is liked so well in the south, and other parts of the USA. They are getting an early start to doing everything they can to try an bring the man down. The media will do everything they can to try and stop the momentum Bush and the GOP have had over th elast 4 years. Why?, because it means less voice for them! Don't worry though, my family are GA Republicans, so I know the real "smell" in the air to when it come to Dem Spin. The media may try and fool some of the people some of the time.......They are not kidding the ones who live here and know the true direction of the political landscape. GA will go at least 12-15 points for Bush, I wouldn't even concern myself if I were you. It too is one of those states that has become more GOP, and you know it too because you live there. It is as reliable for the GOP as Mass. is for the Dems and you know it!

[Q]

Zachman and GWBfan, I don't think the true GA numbers are this close.  But I don't think Bush will have another landslide (55%+) here in Nov.

Like I said, I think the closeness of many of these state and national polls is more representative of the national deadlock the country is currently experiencing.

It may also mean that both Bush and the Dem will have to campaign more than their strategists would have liked in states that should be considered "safe" for them.

I'm sorry QQQQQQ, all this means is that the media is so desparate to show Bush as weak. He is not, mark my words. They are outraged that he is liked so well in the south, and other parts of the USA. They are getting an early start to doing everything they can to try an bring the man down. The media will do everything they can to try and stop the momentum Bush and the GOP have had over th elast 4 years. Why?, because it means less voice for them! Don't worry though, my family are GA Republicans, so I know the real "smell" in the air to when it come to Dem Spin. The media may try and fool some of the people some of the time.......They are not kidding the ones who live here and know the true direction of the political landscape. GA will go at least 12-15 points for Bush, I wouldn't even concern myself if I were you. It too is one of those states that has become more GOP, and you know it too because you live there. It is as reliable for the GOP as Mass. is for the Dems and you know it!

Well, Gopman, that sounded somewhat hostile, but I'll have to assume it was just your enthusiasm for electoral politics :-)

In no way did I imply that I thought the Dem would win GA.  I thought it was intriguing, though, that this poll, albeit one taken by a partisam organization, showed the candidates so close in a state considered one of Bush's strongest.

I was merely passing along this story to the forum for discussion of any implications, so I respect (and agree with) your assessment that GA will be solidly Bush.

[WalterMitty]

remember guys, georgia just elected sonny perdue governor.  if a weak republican like perdue can beat a popular incumbent, im darn certain bush can carry the state....easily.

this reminds me of a poll i saw sometime around december of 1999, it showed bush leading gore in massachusetts.

[Q]

remember guys, georgia just elected sonny perdue governor.  if a weak republican like perdue can beat a popular incumbent, im darn certain bush can carry the state....easily.

this reminds me of a poll i saw sometime around december of 1999, it showed bush leading gore in massachusetts.

The reason Sonny was elected was purely because of personal dislike for former Governor Roy Barnes, a Democrat.

Barnes was not "popular" - he was well-funded, and not much more.  No charisma.  Many voters thought him to be arrogant and power-happy ((including myself, a staunch Dem, even - what does that say about Barnes' popularity?).

To say nothing of that entire state flag fiasco, which continues today.  Barnes, in my opinion, and took the moral initiative, something Zell Miller didn't have the spine to do his his 8 years as Governor.  And Barnes payed the political price.

But Sonny's appeals for the former racist flag fell on deaf ears in the Dem-controlled state legislature.  Now we get vote on March 2 between 2 compromise flags.  The 1956 racist flag is absent.  Sonny has lost the flagger constituency and will face one of two strong and very popular Democrats in 2006.  I think we all can predict just 1 term for Sonny.

[WalterMitty]

im still very shocked perdue beat barnes.  i remember watching that vote very closely on election night, expecting it to turn around at any moment.

im a republican, but im ashamed of what perdue and chambliss did to get elected.

those two wouldnt make 'my favorite republicans list'

[MN-Troy]

this reminds me of a poll i saw sometime around december of 1999, it showed bush leading gore in massachusetts.

Any evidence of that poll?

If taken that your word is the truth, how come John McCain won the primary in that state in 2000?

[© tweed]

Bush was leading Kerry in Early 2003 in Mass.

[WalterMitty]

MN troy:  i dont remember the specifics of the poll, but i do distinctly remember seeing it.

as for mccain, he didnt catch fire until early in 2000 (sort of like kerry this year).  for much of 1999, mccain ran far behind mccain.

[© tweed]

MN troy:  i dont remember the specifics of the poll, but i do distinctly remember seeing it.

as for mccain, he didnt catch fire until early in 2000 (sort of like kerry this year).  for much of 1999, mccain ran far behind mccain.

McCain ran far behind McCain???

[WalterMitty]

ha.  mccain ran far behind bush, i menat to say.

[© tweed]

ha.  mccain ran far behind bush, i menat to say.

Sometimes that happens to me too