Should the federal government be abolished?

[A18]

If not reformed, I honestly see absolutely no point to it anymore.

The whole point to the union in the first place was defense, interstate trade, peace between the states, and to prevent the same from chocking off.

Well, now there are crazy terrorists trying to get nuclear weapons, and some people are mad that our President is trying to stop them.

Interstate trade has succeeded by all means, but high taxes keep millions of Americans from achieving their 'full' potential.

The dollar keeps going down in value because the Feds apparently don't know what they're doing. This isn't a big deal (if we wanted to, we could just come out with a new dollar in exchange for 10 of the old ones), but I'm sick of putting a dollar in my school's rip-off Coke machine. Anyway, we could make the dollar our euro.

The States aren't fighting much. Problem is, they now hate each other collectively ('we Americans are so arrogant') and have become stepping stones to the national spotlight. A State and a Province are not the same thing.

The other problem is, the people in those states can't stand each other's political ideas. In a situation like this, there's nothing dumber than the centralization of power.

The United States aren't chocking off. If they were, it'd be a good sign, because as things are they're dying in a euphoria. Immigration is eating away at our national identity. The ONE thing federal government IS supposed to be doing that it DOESN'T touch. Thanks a lot for taxing us to hell and STILL giving us a trillion-dollar debt.

They say the Articles of Confederation failed. Well, so did the Constitution. What now?

[Akno21]

We are the greatest country in the world. I don't think the Consitution has failed.

[A18]

I agree 100% that we're the greatest nation in the world. But that fact doesn't eliminate our problems.

I mean, look at the competitition...France?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If not reformed, I honestly see absolutely no point to it anymore.

The whole point to the union in the first place was defense, interstate trade, peace between the states, and to prevent the same from chocking off.

Well, now there are crazy terrorists trying to get nuclear weapons, and some people are mad that our President is trying to stop them.

Interstate trade has succeeded by all means, but high taxes keep millions of Americans from achieving their 'full' potential.

The dollar keeps going down in value because the Feds apparently don't know what they're doing. This isn't a big deal (if we wanted to, we could just come out with a new dollar in exchange for 10 of the old ones), but I'm sick of putting a dollar in my school's rip-off Coke machine. Anyway, we could make the dollar our euro.

The States aren't fighting much. Problem is, they now hate each other collectively ('we Americans are so arrogant') and have become stepping stones to the national spotlight. A State and a Province are not the same thing.

The other problem is, the people in those states can't stand each other's political ideas. In a situation like this, there's nothing dumber than the centralization of power.

The United States aren't chocking off. If they were, it'd be a good sign, because as things are they're dying in a euphoria. Immigration is eating away at our national identity. The ONE thing federal government IS supposed to be doing that it DOESN'T touch. Thanks a lot for taxing us to hell and STILL giving us a trillion-dollar debt.

They say the Articles of Confederation failed. Well, so did the Constitution. What now?

What a load of bollocks

[A18]

I would complain that your replies are one-liners, but unfortunately I can't because that's what I do in everyone else's topics.

[MODU]

Interesting argument, but I'll pick an easy one for the moment, and address the rest later:

"we could make the dollar our euro."

Not sure if you meant that we base our dollar's value off of the Euro, or if you meant that the US Dollar would be like the Euro for the would-be 50 separate states that would exist if the US Union was abolished.  Taking the second item first, the US Dollar is, in fact, the "Euro" of the United States of America.  Prior to the US Constitution, each state printed their own currency, and the currency value was reflective of the financial strength of the state of origin.  Similar to what the EU has done, the US established a national currency which took into account the economic strengths of the member-states, and created a common unit of currency which could be used over the multiple state borders without having to account for exchange rates.

The other point, which is basing our current dollar value off of the Euro would actually cause a global disaster.  Primarily for the fact that the EU uses the value of the US Dollar as the monetary constant between all the EU states when calculating the exchange rates and value of the Euro.  The EU has not yet adopted their own method of independently valuing their own currency since there is not a central EU government which can control and/or account for the member-state's economic strengths like the US can.  As the EU continues to evolve and unite like the US member-states did, then they can achieve this level of independence.

And since we are discussing the relationship between the Euro and the US Dollar, a key reason why it seems that the US Dollar is not doing well internationally is due to the inverse relationship with the Euro, or the other "benchmark" for Western Economies.  So when the Euro rises in value, it makes it look like the US Dollar is dropping.  Or, when the US Dollar drops in value, it makes it look as if the Euro value is rising.  Since the US economy is more global than the EU economy, our Dollar value is more prone to "swings" in response to global economic conditions.  As the global economy continues to stabalize (and I really wish Russia and Venezuela would get their act together in regards to the oil prices), you will see the disparity between the US Dollar and the Euro decrease.

[angus]

The US dollar is already the de facto currency of the western hemisphere.  From Ushuaia to northern alaska, and everywhere in between, the dollar is the preferred currency.  In the fifty states (as well as in all the americas) the dollar's already there.

If the government of the USA is abolished, who'll defend you?  The Army of Northern Virginia?  Drive through interstate ten, from LA to the atlantic coast, and take any exit off that road.  You think roads in louisiana, or new mexico, are bad?  they'll get quite a bit worse when uncle sam stops building them.

Sure, the federal government has overstepped the boundaries that Jefferson had constructed, and that the language in the political literature, by around 1840, had changed from "these united states are..." to "The United States is..."  And this was 20 years before the question of states rights vs. strong central government was settled at the point of a Republican bayonnet.  But the document itself gives you the instructions for changing it.

You seem to have a bigger problem with Fiat money than with the USA.  If so, we may be in agreement.  Follow the Yellow Brick Road, I say.  But don't scrap the whole system because it isn't perfect.  Without enforced union our country would have gone the way of many great empires.  It still may.  Rome wasn't destroyed in a day, you know.

[MODU]

Oh, and one more quickie:

I remember when Soda's cost 30 cents, and they came in glass bottles out of a vending machine which you had to slide the flap open, reach in, and pull hard to get the machine to release the bottle.  I'm sure there are some who are older than I am on here who remember soda's being as "cheap" as a dime.

And one more thing . . . Why are there soda machines in public schools these days???  We never had them.  Of course, I remember when the first drink boxes and Capri-Suns came out.  Beat carring your juices to school in little tupperware cups.  HAHAHA

[angus]

I remember dime sodas, dime candy bars, dime payphones and dime stamps.  I think there were nickel sodas, nickel candy, nickel phones, and nickel stamps, but that was before my time.  Sometime between elementary school and my high school graduation we had a Carter presidency, thus my memory that in my High School coca-cola machine cost 50 cents.  Malaise and inflation, anyone?  

Keep soda costs down!  Vote Republican!  

[Posterity]

Should the federal government be abolished?

No, it shouldn't be abolished but it should be reduced in size and power to what was originally intended.  Lack of state sovereignty and excessive direct taxing of individuals at the federal level are two factors contributing to the problems we face today.

[MODU]

That is the Constitution Party's platform . . . less government, bound by the original text of the Constitution (which wouldn't work in todays society . . . hence the reason why the Constitution was designed to be updated).

[minionofmidas]

I remember dime sodas, dime candy bars, dime payphones and dime stamps.  I think there were nickel sodas, nickel candy, nickel phones, and nickel stamps, but that was before my time.  Sometime between elementary school and my high school graduation we had a Carter presidency, thus my memory that in my High School coca-cola machine cost 50 cents.  Malaise and inflation, anyone?  

Keep soda costs down!  Vote Republican!  

Just one minor point, though.
Guy who wrecked Bretton Woods, thus creating late-70s inflation in America and the UK, was called Richard Milhous Nixon.

[Posterity]

That is the Constitution Party's platform . . . less government, bound by the original text of the Constitution (which wouldn't work in todays society . . . hence the reason why the Constitution was designed to be updated).

It's also the Libertarian Party's platform.

Why do you say it wouldn't work in today's society?  Why does today's society require a strong central government and marginalized state governments?

[muon2]

I remember dime sodas, dime candy bars, dime payphones and dime stamps.  I think there were nickel sodas, nickel candy, nickel phones, and nickel stamps, but that was before my time.  Sometime between elementary school and my high school graduation we had a Carter presidency, thus my memory that in my High School coca-cola machine cost 50 cents.  Malaise and inflation, anyone?  

Keep soda costs down!  Vote Republican!  

Just one minor point, though.
Guy who wrecked Bretton Woods, thus creating late-70s inflation in America and the UK, was called Richard Milhous Nixon.

Bretton Woods was a mess for a decade before Nixon took office. He finally did what Ike, JFK and LBJ should have done.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system#The_U.S._Balance_of_Payments_Crisis_1958-1968

[swarch]

Should the federal government be abolished?

No, it shouldn't be abolished but it should be reduced in size and power to what was originally intended.  Lack of state sovereignty and excessive direct taxing of individuals at the federal level are two factors contributing to the problems we face today.

I agree with Posterity. If it were reduced to its constitutional functions, it would be 5%-10% of its current size.

[opebo]

The federal government is a necessary evil, but individuals who value their freedom should always think of it as the enemy.

Basically if the constitution were expanded to disallow any interference with economic freedom without compensation we'd probably be OK.

[A18]

Alright, my reply to the dollar/euro thing.

I know that the dollar replaced state currencies, but what I meant by 'our euro' is that Europe does not have a [real] central government and still manages to do this. I would be 100% against basing our currency on any other currency.

I believe that the 27 articles of amendments should be tossed out. We could then adopt a system used by Virginia, where legislation to amend the Constitution says exactly what's being changed, so that you have a flowing, 'modern' document. No 'that doesn't count anymore' as a footnote. At least the first thirteen amendments would probably be incorporated.

Roads, education, and so forth would be handled by the States. I can see why New Mexico could have problems, but why Louisiana?

By the way, I should make it clear that I actually do NOT want to abolish the Union. What I'm actually arguing is that the Union in its present form is worse than the States standing alone.

I doubt the 'Northern Virginia army' would be necessary. Who's going to invade, France? The states would certainly cooperate to keep foreigners on the other side of the sea. It would be less effective in fighting Islamofacism, but as I said, we're not doing it right now.

What really burns me up is how our history textbooks read as if we've made such great progress by getting past this 'barbaric idea' of states' rights. Where is it written in stone that centralized authority protects and promotes liberty? I would argue that history shows us just the opposite.

And we have Coke machines because no one likes Pepsi. Most teachers still get mad when we drink them in class, though.

[ATFFL]

I believe that the 27 articles of amendments should be tossed out. We could then adopt a system used by Virginia, where legislation to amend the Constitution says exactly what's being changed, so that you have a flowing, 'modern' document. No 'that doesn't count anymore' as a footnote. At least the first thirteen amendments would probably be incorporated.

And what if one state doesn't?  What if Mississippi re-institutes slavery?  Or South Carolina goes fascist?  Or Montana goes Christian Soveriegn and threatens to nuke any state which does not do the same?  Maybe they can threaten the whole world.

[??????????]

I believe that the 27 articles of amendments should be tossed out. We could then adopt a system used by Virginia, where legislation to amend the Constitution says exactly what's being changed, so that you have a flowing, 'modern' document. No 'that doesn't count anymore' as a footnote. At least the first thirteen amendments would probably be incorporated.

And what if one state doesn't?  What if Mississippi re-institutes slavery?  Or South Carolina goes fascist?  Or Montana goes Christian Soveriegn and threatens to nuke any state which does not do the same?  Maybe they can threaten the whole world.

Believe it or not the Constitution DOES limit such things.

[A18]

The 13th amendment banned slavery, and that would be included.

But again, you're assuming that the federal government is more likely to protect civil liberties than the state. What if the feds become fascist?

I'm pretty sure Jesus is against nuking other states...

[MODU]

"The feds" as you put it are a part of our representative government.  The only way there could be a sizable group within the fed to become facist is if they are elected by the population of the nation.  Therefore, it would be a reflection of the view of the national majority.  However, our capitalistic society would most likely push out any facism that might attempt to take control of the nation.

[Inverted Things]

Actually, capitalism is very difficult to keep on the straight and narrow. Tip too far to the left and you get socialism. Tip too far to the right, you get fascism. Read "The Iron Heel" by Jack London for a wonderful visionary tale about these political systems.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Lemme think....Uh.....no.  You crazy republicans, when us liberals decided to go against the war the FEDERAL government decided to bring us into, we were all traitors!  Now, they're a necessary evil.  What is it!?  

We're the United States, united under the Constitution, and we need something to hold it together.  

[Dr. Cynic]

We need a federal govt. to keep state governments from acting like seperate countries. That's the point of the federal govt.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

The Bush regime is fascist. If a liberal state attempts to secede, I support its right to do so, and I would ask that it saves some room for me!