Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 27, 2014, 11:07:37 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Please delete your old personal messages.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  International General Discussion (Moderators: Peter, afleitch)
| | |-+  Next Wave of EU Expansion
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 Print
Poll
Question: Which of the following countries would you support bringing into the European Union, the next time it decides to embark on a new era of expansion?
Croatia   -27 (13.6%)
Bosnia   -13 (6.5%)
Montenegro   -23 (11.6%)
Serbia   -13 (6.5%)
Kosovo   -14 (7%)
Macedonia   -24 (12.1%)
Turkey   -13 (6.5%)
Iceland   -32 (16.1%)
Ukraine   -14 (7%)
Moldova   -10 (5%)
Georgia   -7 (3.5%)
Armenia   -7 (3.5%)
Azerbaijan   -2 (1%)
Show Pie Chart
Total Voters: 36

Author Topic: Next Wave of EU Expansion  (Read 6518 times)
Frodo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13815
United States


View Profile WWW
« on: March 01, 2008, 04:16:23 pm »
Ignore

And here is the map of the European Union as it currently stands:



Light Green: Current members
Dark Blue: Candidate countries
Light Blue: Potential candidate countries
Yellow: Application for membership frozen as negotiations were rejected in a referendum
Red: Application for membership rejected
Pink: Accession rejected in two referenda
Logged

GMantis
Dessie Potter
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5271
Bulgaria


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2008, 04:41:53 pm »
Ignore

Montenegro, Serbia and Macedonia.
Logged

Јas
Jas
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9821
Malawi


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2008, 05:25:13 pm »
Ignore

Of the poll options: Iceland; Croatia; and Macedonia.
The rest have various issues (mostly human rights related) which I think should be addressed before allowing entry.

Of those not on the list, Norway, Switzerland, Greenland and most of the micro-nations would also be fine with me.
Logged

Funny 'cause it's true:
Very few people seriously allow facts to affect their opinions.

ottermax
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1420
United States


Political Matrix
E: -4.97, S: -6.52

P
View Profile
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2008, 05:30:09 pm »
Ignore

It would be great to see Turkey join, but the economy needs to improve there. I think the EU may have to wait about a decade to allow any new states because the new ones currently are still behind Western Europe and must catch up before any more countries can be admitted.
Logged
True Democrat
true democrat
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 7485
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.10, S: -2.87

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2008, 05:59:34 pm »
Ignore

I voted Croatia and Iceland, though I probably should've voted Macedonia too.

Turkey should be allowed to join soon, but it probably won't join for at least ten years.
Logged

Michael Bloomberg for President.



Lol Winfield.  This quote is from a thread entitled "what do the following proceed to do if they are not nominated?"
Romney - President of Harvard
Hashemite
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31558
South Africa


Political Matrix
E: -1.29, S: -7.30


View Profile WWW
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2008, 06:28:46 pm »
Ignore

Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Iceland.

I'm against Turkey in Europe. The Turkish government's recent law on headscarves backs me up my argument.
Logged

Verily
Cuivienen
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 16806


Political Matrix
E: 1.81, S: -6.78

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2008, 06:44:14 pm »
Ignore

In the next wave, I'd like to see Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Albania and Iceland. However, I am of the opinion that membership within the European Union works to solve a lot of the problems often brought up with candidate countries and therefore only oppose countries with very severe unsolved problems (Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Moldova and Bosnia of those listed) from joining.

I think Turkish membership in the EU would be of immediate and immense benefit to both democracy and secularism in Turkey and therefore have no qualms whatsoever with admitting it more or less as is. Same goes for corruption problems in Ukraine.
Logged
True Democrat
true democrat
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 7485
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.10, S: -2.87

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2008, 07:39:50 pm »
Ignore

Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Iceland.

I'm against Turkey in Europe. The Turkish government's recent law on headscarves backs me up my argument.

Because obviously headscarves = terrorism.

The European fascination with the relationship between headscarves and Islamic extremism, along with minarets and this extremism has always amazed me.  I don't understand where these concepts come from.
Logged

Michael Bloomberg for President.



Lol Winfield.  This quote is from a thread entitled "what do the following proceed to do if they are not nominated?"
Romney - President of Harvard
Michael Z
Mike
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4335
Political Matrix
E: -5.88, S: -4.72

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2008, 08:54:38 pm »
Ignore

Croatia, Iceland, Moldova. Montenegro and Bosnia as well, perhaps.

Tadic's victory made Serbia's inclusion slightly more likely, but only slightly and I think there are still too many hard feelings over the Kosovo war for this to happen any time soon.

Kosovo and Ukraine won't join for the foreseeable future, because Russia would go absolutely apes***t if they did.

Turkey won't join in the next immediate phase because key member states like Germany and UK are still at loggerheads over this issue; but I do believe it will happen at some point before 2020.
Logged
Hashemite
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31558
South Africa


Political Matrix
E: -1.29, S: -7.30


View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2008, 09:15:12 pm »
Ignore

Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Iceland.

I'm against Turkey in Europe. The Turkish government's recent law on headscarves backs me up my argument.

Because obviously headscarves = terrorism.

The European fascination with the relationship between headscarves and Islamic extremism, along with minarets and this extremism has always amazed me.  I don't understand where these concepts come from.

Wow, just wow.

I never said anything about headscarves=terrorism. My point was in fact about secularism in Turkey.

Wow.
Logged

tweed
Miamiu1027
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 35782
United States


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2008, 09:27:57 pm »
Ignore

why isn't Norway in the EU?
Logged

in a mirror, dimly lit
Michael Z
Mike
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4335
Political Matrix
E: -5.88, S: -4.72

View Profile
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2008, 09:30:42 pm »
Ignore

why isn't Norway in the EU?

Economic reasons, mainly. Norway has one of the most generous welfare states on the planet, yet it's also horrendously expensive compared to other EU countries, and they're loath to give up that "special status". There are probably other reasons, but that's it in a nutshell, I think.

However, there are special agreements in place which mean that they effectively have quasi-EU status.
Logged
True Federalist
Ernest
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28803
United States


View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2008, 09:59:03 pm »
Ignore

Scotland
Logged

People find meaning and redemption in the most unusual human connections. Khaled Hosseini
Хahar
Xahar
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 38875
Bangladesh


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2008, 10:15:45 pm »
Ignore

Croatia, Turkey, Iceland.
Logged

Update reading list

The idea of parodying the preceding Atlasian's postings is laughable, of course, but not for reasons one might expect.
True Democrat
true democrat
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 7485
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.10, S: -2.87

View Profile
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2008, 01:02:22 am »
Ignore

Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Iceland.

I'm against Turkey in Europe. The Turkish government's recent law on headscarves backs me up my argument.

Because obviously headscarves = terrorism.

The European fascination with the relationship between headscarves and Islamic extremism, along with minarets and this extremism has always amazed me.  I don't understand where these concepts come from.

Wow, just wow.

I never said anything about headscarves=terrorism. My point was in fact about secularism in Turkey.

Wow.

I would consider equal rights for people of all religious preferences to be an important part of secularism, wouldn't you?
Logged

Michael Bloomberg for President.



Lol Winfield.  This quote is from a thread entitled "what do the following proceed to do if they are not nominated?"
Romney - President of Harvard
opebo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 47607


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2008, 01:43:48 am »
Ignore

Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Iceland.

I'm against Turkey in Europe. The Turkish government's recent law on headscarves backs me up my argument.

Because obviously headscarves = terrorism.

The European fascination with the relationship between headscarves and Islamic extremism, along with minarets and this extremism has always amazed me.  I don't understand where these concepts come from.

It should be obvious.  Headscarves, minarets, and so forth show that there are people present who actually believe in their inherited nonsensical intolerant hate-filled religion, and thus they are a terrible danger to everyone else.  This same method of noticing the religious works in christian countries as well - look for churches and jesus signs in the south and you'll know you're in trouble and should get out asap.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 01:46:09 am by opebo »Logged

The essence of democracy at its purest is a lynch mob

ukchris82
Full Member
***
Posts: 180
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2008, 06:04:06 am »
Ignore



Countries that wish to join the EU must address human rights.
In the last wave of entrants, some have still yet to implement human rights, this is not acceptable, you must meet the criteria before you join, simply saying, we will meet them if you let us join first, is not good enough.

Iceland is the only country that meets my criteria at the moment, but i'd like to see all Europeam countries joining, and having a system similar to the US.
Logged
London Man
Silent Hunter
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6052
United Kingdom


View Profile WWW
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2008, 07:10:59 am »
Ignore

Iceland, Ukraine, Croatia and Macedonia. Croatia needs to fully sort out war crimes stuff first though.
Logged

Michael Z
Mike
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4335
Political Matrix
E: -5.88, S: -4.72

View Profile
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2008, 07:14:18 am »
Ignore

Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Iceland.

I'm against Turkey in Europe. The Turkish government's recent law on headscarves backs me up my argument.

Because obviously headscarves = terrorism.

The European fascination with the relationship between headscarves and Islamic extremism, along with minarets and this extremism has always amazed me.  I don't understand where these concepts come from.

Wow, just wow.

I never said anything about headscarves=terrorism. My point was in fact about secularism in Turkey.

Wow.

I would consider equal rights for people of all religious preferences to be an important part of secularism, wouldn't you?

Since when? Secularism is the rejection of religious doctrines, not some form of equalitarianism. Besides, we're talking about a system of enforced secularism - in Turkey, they very much have a "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile"-attitude towards Islamists, which dates back to the Ataturk period.

However, I think the main reason some EU governments such as Germany are against Turkey joining is the human rights abuses taking place there, especially against the Kurds, not to mention all that stuff about the Armenian genocide. For as long as Turkey doesn't address these issues, EU membership is unlikely. You could of course look at it from another angle and suggest that membership is the proverbial carrot on the stick that's being held out for Turkey to address its human rights abuses.

There are of course other, pettier reasons, which are mostly related to Germany's sizeable Turkish community, but that's neither here nor there.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 07:20:13 am by Michael Z »Logged
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 57046
Saint Helena


View Profile WWW
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2008, 07:18:48 am »
Ignore

O/c using one definition of the term it's actually wrong to describe the system in Turkey as being secular; the state has an active role in religious affairs.
Logged

"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
GMantis
Dessie Potter
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5271
Bulgaria


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2008, 07:32:09 am »
Ignore

I think Turkish membership in the EU would be of immediate and immense benefit to both democracy and secularism in Turkey and therefore have no qualms whatsoever with admitting it more or less as is. Same goes for corruption problems in Ukraine.
My own experience indicates that corruption actually increases after admission in the EU. And if Turkey is admitted unreformed, the anti-democratic forces will become entrenched and reforms will be far less likely.


Countries that wish to join the EU must address human rights.
In the last wave of entrants, some have still yet to implement human rights, this is not acceptable, you must meet the criteria before you join, simply saying, we will meet them if you let us join first, is not good enough.

Iceland is the only country that meets my criteria at the moment, but i'd like to see all Europeam countries joining, and having a system similar to the US.
Which countries admitted recently have yet to implement human rights?
Logged

ukchris82
Full Member
***
Posts: 180
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2008, 07:50:51 am »
Ignore

I think Turkish membership in the EU would be of immediate and immense benefit to both democracy and secularism in Turkey and therefore have no qualms whatsoever with admitting it more or less as is. Same goes for corruption problems in Ukraine.
My own experience indicates that corruption actually increases after admission in the EU. And if Turkey is admitted unreformed, the anti-democratic forces will become entrenched and reforms will be far less likely.




Countries that wish to join the EU must address human rights.
In the last wave of entrants, some have still yet to implement human rights, this is not acceptable, you must meet the criteria before you join, simply saying, we will meet them if you let us join first, is not good enough.

Iceland is the only country that meets my criteria at the moment, but i'd like to see all Europeam countries joining, and having a system similar to the US.
Which countries admitted recently have yet to implement human rights?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Romania
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Bulgaria

Don't get me wrong, I think these countries have came a long way, but membership should be as a reward when you've finished the test. What motivation do the countries have now to address the remaining aims?
Logged
afleitch
Moderator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22049


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -8.17

View Profile
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2008, 10:01:42 am »

Romania and Bulgaria entered too quickly. I support moves for Iceland, Croatia and Turkey to join next wave.

And Scotland, should we become independent.
Logged
ukchris82
Full Member
***
Posts: 180
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2008, 01:49:39 pm »
Ignore

Romania and Bulgaria entered too quickly. I support moves for Iceland, Croatia and Turkey to join next wave.

And Scotland, should we become independent.

Amen to that!
Logged
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58775
India


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2008, 01:53:55 pm »
Ignore

All but the former Soviet Union states.
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
Pages: [1] 2 3 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines