Venezuela, Ecuador send troops to Columbian border
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  Venezuela, Ecuador send troops to Columbian border
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Author Topic: Venezuela, Ecuador send troops to Columbian border  (Read 3505 times)
Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2008, 02:41:18 PM »

Fidel Castro is at least still a source of fun:

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http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5hbSbOhhyyMNFxRHTe8SAIeYRM9bA
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GMantis
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« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2008, 03:49:38 PM »

Doesn't the FARC have substantial support in parts of Colombia - mostly in the Andes region?A guerrila group, however unpopular, usualy has at least some local support, or it doesn't last as long as FARC.

Of course it does.  Nobody would argue otherwise. There are areas of significant support for the rebels, otherwise they would not have been as successful as they are. Still, this seems to be a minority opinion in Colombia: - Uribe has built his entire political career on finishing FARC off, and he's done pretty good for himself.

One thing I wonder about: when Ecuadorean/Venezuelan FMs meet their Colombian counterpart Araujo, what are they going to tell him? It would take some balls to defend FARC in front of that guy.  I'd pay as lot to be a fly on the wall of that room.
Well, he on the other hand will have to defend their incursion into Ecuador, so it wouldn't be completely onesided.
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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2008, 04:15:30 PM »

I checked and Venezuela does have "Flankers", one of the world's top 10 fighter aircraft.
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Colin
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« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2008, 05:45:16 PM »

I checked and Venezuela does have "Flankers", one of the world's top 10 fighter aircraft.

Yes I did a run down of each of the three nations armed forces. Venezuela's are the best equipped by far. The Colombian Air Force's attack capabilites are 18 Dassault Mirage 5s and 11 IAI Kfirs. The Venezuelan Air Force's attack capabilities are 18 F-5 Freedom Fighters, 12 Dassault Mirage 50s, 10 operations F-16s, 14 Sukhoi Su30 Flankers, which I have to agree with the above poster is a very good fighter. Ecuador, though, as better strike capabilites than either. The Ecuadorian Air Force's attack capabilites are 11 BAC Strikemasters (hehe don't even know if those qualify), 12 Dasault Mirage F.1s, 12 IAI Kfirs, and 7 SEPECAT Jaguars, which are a decent ground attack aircraft especially for a small Latin American country like Ecuador.

Let's move onto Army equipment. The Main Battle Tank of Venezuela is the AMX30 of which Venezuela currently has 86 in their military. Not horrible though it is lightly armoured and of mid 1960s vintage. The current vehicle that the Colombian Army uses as an MBT is the Bradley Fighting Vehicle, of which they only have 12. The MBT of Ecuador is the old T-55 doesn't say how many they have though.

For guns the Venezuelans use mostly the FN FAL, with more experienced units using the FN FNC or the AK-103. I don't know what the Colombians use and the Ecuadorians use the FN FAL.

I didn't check Navies because they are less likely to be a major factor than even tanks.

So in the end while Colombia has a major advantage in the number of men currently in uniform the Venezuelans have a very large edge when it comes to military equipment, especially when it comes to the Air Force.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2008, 06:31:26 PM »

Except that if this does escalate to an air war, I can't see the U.S. Navy staying out of this.  2 Carrier Battle Groups have more than enough firepower to quickly sweep the Venezuelan Air Force from the skies, and even just 1 CBG would have enough to win the air war.
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ag
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« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2008, 08:34:29 PM »

Doesn't the FARC have substantial support in parts of Colombia - mostly in the Andes region?A guerrila group, however unpopular, usualy has at least some local support, or it doesn't last as long as FARC.

Of course it does.  Nobody would argue otherwise. There are areas of significant support for the rebels, otherwise they would not have been as successful as they are. Still, this seems to be a minority opinion in Colombia: - Uribe has built his entire political career on finishing FARC off, and he's done pretty good for himself.

One thing I wonder about: when Ecuadorean/Venezuelan FMs meet their Colombian counterpart Araujo, what are they going to tell him? It would take some balls to defend FARC in front of that guy.  I'd pay as lot to be a fly on the wall of that room.
Well, he on the other hand will have to defend their incursion into Ecuador, so it wouldn't be completely onesided.

Formally, no, it won't be one-sided.  In personal terms... Check out Araujo's bio.
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dead0man
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« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2008, 12:26:47 AM »

So in the end while Colombia has a major advantage in the number of men currently in uniform the Venezuelans have a very large edge when it comes to military equipment, especially when it comes to the Air Force.
Air superiority trumps everything else in modern war.
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Colin
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« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2008, 01:19:46 AM »

Except that if this does escalate to an air war, I can't see the U.S. Navy staying out of this.  2 Carrier Battle Groups have more than enough firepower to quickly sweep the Venezuelan Air Force from the skies, and even just 1 CBG would have enough to win the air war.

Mostly likely I see this ending like the Ecuador-Peru War in 1995. A one month long engagement immediately brought to a halt by international pressure and mediation.
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GMantis
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« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2008, 02:14:57 AM »

Doesn't the FARC have substantial support in parts of Colombia - mostly in the Andes region?A guerrila group, however unpopular, usualy has at least some local support, or it doesn't last as long as FARC.

Of course it does.  Nobody would argue otherwise. There are areas of significant support for the rebels, otherwise they would not have been as successful as they are. Still, this seems to be a minority opinion in Colombia: - Uribe has built his entire political career on finishing FARC off, and he's done pretty good for himself.

One thing I wonder about: when Ecuadorean/Venezuelan FMs meet their Colombian counterpart Araujo, what are they going to tell him? It would take some balls to defend FARC in front of that guy.  I'd pay as lot to be a fly on the wall of that room.
Well, he on the other hand will have to defend their incursion into Ecuador, so it wouldn't be completely onesided.

Formally, no, it won't be one-sided.  In personal terms... Check out Araujo's bio.

Ah, I see what you mean: "Well, yes minister they kidnapped you and held you for six years, but otherwise they're nice people, really!" Smiley
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opebo
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« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2008, 02:51:40 AM »

Fidel Castro is at least still a source of fun:

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His claim is indisputable - the US proxy state Columbia violated the soveriegn territory of Ecuador in order to kill a political opponent.  How can you blind yourself to the fact that the Empire caused this war?
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« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2008, 03:25:40 AM »

"Genocidal" though?  I know the far left like hyperbole as much as the right, but sheesh.  That's like PETA comparing a chicken farm to the holocaust.
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opebo
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« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2008, 03:51:43 AM »

"Genocidal" though?  I know the far left like hyperbole as much as the right, but sheesh.  That's like PETA comparing a chicken farm to the holocaust.

Well, that's true, I'll admit, if you think of genocide Serbian or Sudanese style.  But he probably thinks of capitalist domination and enslavement as 'genocidal' in a larger sense. 
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dead0man
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« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2008, 04:05:11 AM »

Ahh, not hyperbole, just incorrect use of the language.  I guess we can excuse him because it could just be a bad translation.  Genocide, like the oft misused "gulag", has a very specific meaning.  Being dominated by capitalism (whatever that means) isn't genocidal.  Hong Kong was dominated by capitalism for a century and if that's genocide, Darfur is demanding a new diciontary.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2008, 01:25:21 PM »

Apparently another senior FARC fella has been deaded.
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opebo
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« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2008, 11:08:05 AM »

Apparently another senior FARC fella has been deaded.

It is worrying.
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dead0man
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« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2008, 07:45:30 PM »

Only if your a Commie in South America (or standing next to one).
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opebo
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« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2008, 05:29:36 AM »

Only if your a Commie in South America (or standing next to one).

I generally 'root for' any of the Resistance, deadman.
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dead0man
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« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2008, 05:38:19 AM »

What about Star Wars?  The "rebels" are the good guys.  That's got to be a tough one for you. Wink
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
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« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2008, 09:35:53 AM »
« Edited: March 12, 2008, 09:37:38 AM by tsionebreicruoc »

"Genocidal" though?  I know the far left like hyperbole as much as the right, but sheesh.  That's like PETA comparing a chicken farm to the holocaust.

Well, that's true, I'll admit, if you think of genocide Serbian or Sudanese style.  But he probably thinks of capitalist domination and enslavement as 'genocidal' in a larger sense. 

I'm just back to the forum.

Yes, please, don't put hard terms everywhere.

A genocide is, please someone correct me if you think I'm wrong, when a group of humans want to kill an other group of humans for what they are (color of their skin, culture, religious, etc).

Holocaust is unmistakably a genocide, so is Rwanda in April 1994. Milosevic's Serbia was hard war crimes but it's not sure that Serbians wanted to eradicates their opponents. Darfur, clearly no one can say. This are mass killing but they kill what they find to take the region, I don't think they want to eradicate a group of human, they want to kill all they find to can take the full control of the area.

Clearly, I don't say that Darfur and Milosevic's Serbia are not horrible. There were and there is still (for Darfur) very hard war crimes. But words must have a sens, I think the only ways we can use the word genocide is concerning Holocaust and Rwanda 1994.

Otherwise, if you retire the sens of the words, you weaken words and step by step make them useless and useless, and concerning conflicting relations you may know what happens when words are useless...?

Only if your a Commie in South America (or standing next to one).

I generally 'root for' any of the Resistance, deadman.

Then, I think this sentence is also not really responsible. Would you support the "Islamical Resistance" (Al qaeda) against West and Christians?

I'm not the last one to say that US govs have an imperialist attitude to the world, but personally I won't blame it as I think it's a normal human way, I would just ask them to not be hypocrite, and to those who don't like it to try to invent new things to establish something more interesting than the current reality which to me is more or less shortly driving us to a big crash.

So, in this way, I think it would be more interesting to make more acurate criticisms... 

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