Minister warns of ‘inbred’ Muslims

[phk]

Minister warns of ‘inbred’ Muslims

Dipesh Gadher, Christopher Morgan and Jonathan Oliver

A government minister has warned that inbreeding among immigrants is causing a surge in birth defects - comments likely to spark a new row over the place of Muslims in British society.

Phil Woolas, an environment minister, said the culture of arranged marriages between first cousins was the “elephant in the room”. Woolas, a former race relations minister, said: “If you have a child with your cousin the likelihood is there’ll be a genetic problem.”

The minister, whose views were supported by medical experts this weekend, said: “The issue we need to debate is first cousin marriages, whereby a lot of arranged marriages are with first cousins, and that produces lots of genetic problems in terms of disability [in children].”

Woolas emphasised the practice did not extend to all Muslim communities but was confined mainly to families originating from rural Pakistan. However, up to half of all marriages within these communities are estimated to involve first cousins.

Medical research suggests that while British Pakistanis are responsible for 3% of all births, they account for one in three British children born with genetic illnesses.

The minister’s comments come as Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, rejected calls to resign over claims that Islamic law should be introduced in Britain. “I’m not contemplating resignation,” he told friends.

Williams insists his remarks were misinterpreted and that he was not advocating a parallel sharia jurisdiction for Muslims, but Lord Carey, his predecessor, warned acceptance of Muslim laws in Britain would be "disastrous".

The archbishop is believed to have received hate mail since he made his controversial comments but has rejected offers of round-the-clock police protection.

Williams is set to clash with the government again this week by voicing opposition to plans to extend detention without charge for terrorist suspects to 42 days.

Woolas, who represents the ethnically mixed seat of Oldham East and Saddleworth, has previously warned that Muslim women who wear headscarves could provoke “fear and resentment”. Yesterday, he was similarly outspoken.

“If you talk to any primary care worker they will tell you that levels of disability among the . . . Pakistani population are higher than the general population. And everybody knows it’s caused by first cousin marriage.

“That’s a cultural thing rather than a religious thing. It is not illegal in this country.

“The problem is that many of the parents themselves and many of the public spokespeople are themselves products of first cousin marriages. It’s very difficult for people to say ‘you can’t do that’ because it’s a very sensitive, human thing.”

He added that the issue is not talked about. “The health authorities look into it. Most health workers and primary care trusts in areas like mine are very aware of it. But it’s a very sensitive issue. That’s why it’s not even a debate and people outside of these areas don’t really know it exists.”

Woolas was supported by Ann Cryer, Labour MP for Keighley, who called for the NHS to do more to warn parents of the dangers of inbreeding.

“This is to do with a medieval culture where you keep wealth within the family,” she said.

“If you go into a paediatric ward in Bradford or Keighley you will find more than half of the kids there are from the Asian community. Since Asians only represent 20%-30% of the population, you can see that they are over represented.

“I have encountered cases of blindness and deafness. There was one poor girl who had to have an oxygen tank on her back and breathe from a hole in the front of her neck.

“The parents were warned they should not have any more children. But when the husband returned again from Pakistan, within months they had another child with exactly the same condition.”

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Always interesting to see how different the language used in the headline and as an introduction is to what was actually said. Which paper is this from?

[minionofmidas]

“If you have a child with your cousin the likelihood is there’ll be a genetic problem.”

False.

(Now, if you do it again... and again... and again... for generations, you have a point. But normally, having your cousin's baby is no more risky than having a baby at over 30 years of age.)

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Cross-cousin marriage is the norm in *some* Hindu communities as well, completely unknown in others. Of course given the relatively low number of acceptable spouses, *some* amount of above-average relatedness is probably a given for most marriages in India.

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That sounds like a very  high estimate, and may have been the highest the journalist (or the person who gave the figure to the journalist) could find. I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand though. Although I wonder about the definition of "genetic illness" here. Not all - nor even most - genetic defects are recognised at birth.
Notice that he didn't state the percentage of Pakistani children to be born with genetic illnesses.

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a seat with a long embedded BNP vote, and the less Islamic seat in Oldham...

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LOL! What a dumbster bigot... "AARGH! She's wearing a headscarf! HELP! HELP! MOMMY!" That kind of "fear"?

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Seems she doesn't believe in ten times the rate, then... Much more realistic set of figures probably, by the way. (Although note that, due to the high number of Pakistanis in Bradford, we would expect the percentage of disabled children in Bradford to be higher compared to the national average, an aspect not covered by this figure.)

[GMantis]

“If you have a child with your cousin the likelihood is there’ll be a genetic problem.”

False.

(Now, if you do it again... and again... and again... for generations, you have a point. But normally, having your cousin's baby is no more risky than having a baby at over 30 years of age.)

That's exactly what's happening.

[minionofmidas]

“If you have a child with your cousin the likelihood is there’ll be a genetic problem.”

False.

(Now, if you do it again... and again... and again... for generations, you have a point. But normally, having your cousin's baby is no more risky than having a baby at over 30 years of age.)

That's exactly what's happening.

Yes... I know.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

a seat with a long embedded BNP vote, and the less Islamic seat in Oldham...

Oldham East & Saddleworth is about 91% white and only about 5% Muslim. In contrast, Oldham West & Royton is only 76% white and is about 19% Muslim. Most of Oldham proper is in West & Royton, East & Saddleworth being basically, though not entirely, suburban:

[opebo]

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a seat with a long embedded BNP vote, and the less Islamic seat in Oldham...

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LOL! What a dumbster bigot... "AARGH! She's wearing a headscarf! HELP! HELP! MOMMY!" That kind of "fear"?

It is perfectly reasonable to fear signs of religiousity, Lewis.  The headscarf itself is not a literal threat, but it is a sure sign that there are people present who actually believe in their hatemongering religion, and are a terrible danger to everyone else.

In precisely the same fashion, when one drives into a rural town in the South or midwest, and sees 'Jesus' signs planted everywhere - in every yard - one knows the town is full of hate-filled people who are sending the message 'we don't want you here'.

[dead0man]

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a seat with a long embedded BNP vote, and the less Islamic seat in Oldham...

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LOL! What a dumbster bigot... "AARGH! She's wearing a headscarf! HELP! HELP! MOMMY!" That kind of "fear"?

I'm guessing the Muslim woman not wearing a headscarf might get a little nervous if she starts seeing more and more of them around her neighborhood.

[minionofmidas]

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a seat with a long embedded BNP vote, and the less Islamic seat in Oldham...

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LOL! What a dumbster bigot... "AARGH! She's wearing a headscarf! HELP! HELP! MOMMY!" That kind of "fear"?

I'm guessing the Muslim woman not wearing a headscarf might get a little nervous if she starts seeing more and more of them around her neighborhood.

That just shows you know nothing.

[GMantis]

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a seat with a long embedded BNP vote, and the less Islamic seat in Oldham...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

LOL! What a dumbster bigot... "AARGH! She's wearing a headscarf! HELP! HELP! MOMMY!" That kind of "fear"?

I'm guessing the Muslim woman not wearing a headscarf might get a little nervous if she starts seeing more and more of them around her neighborhood.

That just shows you know nothing.

You're the one who knows nothing if you discount group pressure so easily. If wearing of headscarves is acceptable, then those who don't wear them will be under pressure from their family and peers to wear them. This certainly isn't helpful for integration. Woolas may have used to extreme language, but he's mostly right.

[minionofmidas]

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a seat with a long embedded BNP vote, and the less Islamic seat in Oldham...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

LOL! What a dumbster bigot... "AARGH! She's wearing a headscarf! HELP! HELP! MOMMY!" That kind of "fear"?

I'm guessing the Muslim woman not wearing a headscarf might get a little nervous if she starts seeing more and more of them around her neighborhood.

That just shows you know nothing.

You're the one who knows nothing if you discount group pressure so easily. If wearing of headscarves is acceptable, then those who don't wear them will be under pressure from their family and peers to wear them. This certainly isn't helpful for integration. Woolas may have used to extreme language, but he's mostly right.

Uh... you know how many Muslim women wear headscarves, and how many don't? Lots of both, so where's the problem.
Now, the disappearance of headscarves from old German women's heads in the course of the 80s. That probably had something to do with group pressure and opposition to integration.

[GMantis]

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a seat with a long embedded BNP vote, and the less Islamic seat in Oldham...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

LOL! What a dumbster bigot... "AARGH! She's wearing a headscarf! HELP! HELP! MOMMY!" That kind of "fear"?

I'm guessing the Muslim woman not wearing a headscarf might get a little nervous if she starts seeing more and more of them around her neighborhood.

That just shows you know nothing.

You're the one who knows nothing if you discount group pressure so easily. If wearing of headscarves is acceptable, then those who don't wear them will be under pressure from their family and peers to wear them. This certainly isn't helpful for integration. Woolas may have used to extreme language, but he's mostly right.

Uh... you know how many Muslim women wear headscarves, and how many don't? Lots of both, so where's the problem.
Now, the disappearance of headscarves from old German women's heads in the course of the 80s. That probably had something to do with group pressure and opposition to integration.

We are talking about the muslim immigrants to EU, which are a introverted group where group pressure is very strong. This applies to all other issues, so why shouldn't it apply here?

[afleitch]

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a seat with a long embedded BNP vote, and the less Islamic seat in Oldham...

You must be logged in to read this quote.

LOL! What a dumbster bigot... "AARGH! She's wearing a headscarf! HELP! HELP! MOMMY!" That kind of "fear"?

I'm guessing the Muslim woman not wearing a headscarf might get a little nervous if she starts seeing more and more of them around her neighborhood.

That just shows you know nothing.

You're the one who knows nothing if you discount group pressure so easily. If wearing of headscarves is acceptable, then those who don't wear them will be under pressure from their family and peers to wear them. This certainly isn't helpful for integration. Woolas may have used to extreme language, but he's mostly right.

Uh... you know how many Muslim women wear headscarves, and how many don't? Lots of both, so where's the problem.
Now, the disappearance of headscarves from old German women's heads in the course of the 80s. That probably had something to do with group pressure and opposition to integration.

We are talking about the muslim immigrants to EU, which are a introverted group where group pressure is very strong. This applies to all other issues, so why shouldn't it apply here?

I have to back you up here. It does happen and I know people who have been pressurised by their brothers and fathers to wear increasingly more conservative head coverings. Worse still they use religion to justify the adoption of Middle Eastgern garb by Pakistani/Bangladeshi women.

[minionofmidas]

Worse still they use religion to justify the adoption of Middle Eastgern garb by Pakistani/Bangladeshi women.

Pakistani and urban Indian hijab is arguably the most radical of all the styles already. (You know which style I'm thinking of. The one without even slits for the eyes.) Certainly more extreme than an Iranian chador or either a traditional Turkish burqa or the more modern, "chic young female turkish islamist*" variety of Turkish burqa I see a lot on young women.

*"islamist" because it takes care to cover all of the hair, which a traditional Turkish burqa sometimes does not.

Really, given the broad variety of hijab styles and the subtle, and often misleading, nuances of meaning, it is just plain absurd to read more into them than, say, into whether a businessman is complying with a "business", "business casual" or "smart casual" dresscode.

[Хahar 🤔]

My mom doesn't wear a headscarf. Neither do my grandmothers. In fact, they're quite rare in Bangladesh, which supplies many of the Muslims in Britain. IIRC, they were rare on Brick Lane, too.

Food for thought.

[opebo]

I'm guessing the Muslim woman not wearing a headscarf might get a little nervous if she starts seeing more and more of them around her neighborhood.

That just shows you know nothing.

Good lord man, it stands to reason!  The community is full of men who think that women who do not wear hibabs are whores, so if she finds herself becoming more and more in the minority it makes her gang-rape and beating all the more likely.

[minionofmidas]

My mom doesn't wear a headscarf. Neither do my grandmothers. In fact, they're quite rare in Bangladesh, which supplies many of the Muslims in Britain. IIRC, they were rare on Brick Lane, too.

Food for thought.

Yeah, Bangladeshis mostly wear the Salwar Qameez, with the Dupatta losely draped over the head, I think. Same goes for Muslims across most of rural India.