Your parties of choice worldwide

[jeron]

 I wouldn't consider the PVV far-right either.

Then i'd suggest you listen to Wilders more closely. If any European politician is far-right at the moment, it's him.

[afleitch]

Likely to be an even bigger one after the elections.

I hope. It looks like the race is narrowing... 

Last poll I read was 40.4 to 34.5. A slight narrowing but very slight (so much so it's indistinguishable from 'noise')

[Keystone Phil]

Likely to be an even bigger one after the elections.

I hope. It looks like the race is narrowing... 

Last poll I read was 40.4 to 34.5. A slight narrowing but very slight (so much so it's indistinguishable from 'noise')

Still three weeks to go though. Remember when Berlusconi was down by an almost identical amount and came back to make it the closest election in Italian history? I just worry about Veltroni doing the same.

[Tory]

 I wouldn't consider the PVV far-right either.

Then i'd suggest you listen to Wilders more closely. If any European politician is far-right at the moment, it's him.

Far-right is a subjective term used by people who disagree with or just don't want to listen to whatever the supposed "far-right" politician has to say. Since the term has the negative connotations of neo-nazism uneducated people hear it and then also don't want to listen to what the politician has to say. It's an effective tool used by hacks which, in the case of three of your countrymen that come to mind, can have violent or near-violent consequences.

[jeron]

Fact: Wilders doesn't want any more muslims to come into the country.
Fact: Wilders doesn't want new mosques to be built. (no freedom of religion)
Fact: Wilders wants to the Quran to be forbidden.
Fact: Wilders attacks ministers of Turkish and Morrocan descent for having two nationalities and questions their loyalty to the Netherlands.

The problem is not that uneducated people don't listen to Wilders, the problem is that they do. He offers no solutions. He just keeps saying the same thing over and over again: it is ridiculous, it is a shame etc. There is no way to have a proper discussion with hem, because he only makes statements and doesn't react to other people's criticims beyond calling them 'soft' or a 'lefty'. They only thing Wilders is trying to do, is get attention from the media. And to attract attention he needs to make extreme statements, which insult a particular group of people and puts them aside as potential terrorists. Even people who are close to him politically (like DeWinter in Flanders) think he has gone too far on several occasions.
The british equivalent of the PVV is the BNP.

[minionofmidas]

Fact: Wilders doesn't want any more muslims to come into the country.
Fact: Wilders doesn't want new mosques to be built. (no freedom of religion)
Fact: Wilders wants to the Quran to be forbidden.
Fact: Wilders attacks ministers of Turkish and Morrocan descent for having two nationalities and questions their loyalty to the Netherlands.

The problem is not that uneducated people don't listen to Wilders, the problem is that they do. He offers no solutions. He just keeps saying the same thing over and over again: it is ridiculous, it is a shame etc. There is no way to have a proper discussion with hem, because he only makes statements and doesn't react to other people's criticims beyond calling them 'soft' or a 'lefty'. They only thing Wilders is trying to do, is get attention from the media. And to attract attention he needs to make extreme statements, which insult a particular group of people and puts them aside as potential terrorists. Even people who are close to him politically (like DeWinter in Flanders) think he has gone too far on several occasions.

Yes.

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No. The British equivalent would be certain politicians within both Labour and the Tories, plus the BNP.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Wallace Lawler was a Liberal.

[minionofmidas]

Wallace Lawler was a Liberal.

You're right, the way I wrote that makes it sound as if I was trying to claim they were free of that sh!t, which I wasn't and they aren't.

[SPQR]

Likely to be an even bigger one after the elections.

I hope. It looks like the race is narrowing... 

Last poll I read was 40.4 to 34.5. A slight narrowing but very slight (so much so it's indistinguishable from 'noise')

A draw in the Senate is a very real possibility.

[Tory]

Fact: Wilders doesn't want any more muslims to come into the country.

I don't see what's wrong with that. If they were assimilating into Dutch or even some sort of broad Western culture that would be one thing, but they aren't

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Muslims don't need a mosque to practice their religion. They can pray in each other's homes or use existing mosques. If they would stop hiring fascists as their Imams I'm sure Mr. Wilders would reconsider his position.

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Mein Kampf is banned in Germany, what's the difference?

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I don't believe that in the U.S. you can hold more than one nationality and be in congress, and no one seems to mind that there. If someone were to hold another nationality don't you think even Obama would jump on that if they were his opponent?


I love how people can get away with putting forth the most vile, racist, sexist garbage as long as they call it a religion, and then when their disgusting beliefs are challenged they claim that the challengers are the discriminatory ones. Religion is a cancer, and Islam just happens to be the most immediately dangerous and malignant form at the moment. Anyone who wants to get rid of it, with the exception of those trying to impose a different religion, should be applauded.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Fact: Wilders wants to the Quran to be forbidden.

Mein Kampf is banned in Germany, what's the difference?

Technically, it isn't banned.

The state government of Bavaria, which is holding the copyright to "Mein Kampf", just isn't allowing any reprints. This has something to do with Munich still being Hitler's official place of residence at the time of his death or something like that. When he died and the German Reich ceased to exist, the copyright first fell to the American occupation authority (since  Bavaria was part of the U.S. occupation zone). With the end of the occupation, the state of Bavaria finally inherited the copyright to "Mein Kampf".

Since that time it has been the policy of the Bavarian government not to allow any reprints of "Mein Kampf". This also means that it is legal to own, buy, and sell issues of "Mein Kampf" which were published prior to 1945. Strictly speaking, surviving relatives of Adolf Hitler also could have gone to court and reclaimed the rights to "Mein Kampf", but nobody from the Hitler family actually tried to do this. Currently, the copyright is expected to expire on December 31, 2015 (= 70 years after the death of the author). On this date, "Mein Kampf" would enter public domain.

Aside from Germany, the state of Bavaria also owns the copyright for "Mein Kampf" in a number of other countries and is using it there to prevent the book from getting reprinted too. Among the countries where it is allowed to publish "Mein Kampf" is the United States. In this particular case, the copyright to the book was seized by the U.S. government during World War II under the so-called "Trading with the Enemy Act". Otherwise, the copyright for the United States would probably be in the hands of the Bavarian state as well now.


The author of the Quran has been dead much much longer than just 70 years, so the same thing clearly couldn't be applied here.

[minionofmidas]

Mein Kampf is banned in Germany, what's the difference?

Content.

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I don't believe that in the U.S. you can hold more than one nationality and be in congress, and no one seems to mind that there. [/quote]
Of course you can.

[Хahar 🤔]

Fact: Wilders doesn't want any more muslims to come into the country.

I don't see what's wrong with that. If they were assimilating into Dutch or even some sort of broad Western culture that would be one thing, but they aren't.

Define "assimilation". I think I'm assimilating just fine.

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Muslims don't need a mosque to practice their religion. They can pray in each other's homes or use existing mosques. If they would stop hiring fascists as their Imams I'm sure Mr. Wilders would reconsider his position.

And Christians don't need churches. Jews don't need synagogues. And who is "they"? My imams are not fascists.

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Mein Kampf is banned in Germany, what's the difference?

You're suggesting that that makes it right?

I own a copy of Mein Kampf. I read it frequently. I own several copies of the Qur'an. I read them frequently. There are no more similarities than any two books are bound to have by definition.

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I don't believe that in the U.S. you can hold more than one nationality and be in congress, and no one seems to mind that there. If someone were to hold another nationality don't you think even Obama would jump on that if they were his opponent?

Nationality≠citizenship.

I love how people can get away with putting forth the most vile, racist, sexist garbage as long as they call it a religion, and then when their disgusting beliefs are challenged they claim that the challengers are the discriminatory ones. Religion is a cancer, and Islam just happens to be the most immediately dangerous and malignant form at the moment. Anyone who wants to get rid of it, with the exception of those trying to impose a different religion, should be applauded.

You can oppose religion. I have no problem with that. You cannot oppose the practice of religion by others. That violates basic rights. If I want to believe that 2+2=3, that is my perogative.

The author of the Quran has been dead much much longer than just 70 years, so the same thing clearly couldn't be applied here.

The author of the Qur'an is not dead by any means, but that's neither here nor there.

[Tory]

Fact: Wilders doesn't want any more muslims to come into the country.

I don't see what's wrong with that. If they were assimilating into Dutch or even some sort of broad Western culture that would be one thing, but they aren't.

Define "assimilation". I think I'm assimilating just fine.

Assimilation is becoming functioning members of the mainstream who tolerate other's beliefs. I'm glad you're assimilating, and a good number of European Muslims are as well, but you just can't compare the situation in the states with the situation in Europe. It's completely different.

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Muslims don't need a mosque to practice their religion. They can pray in each other's homes or use existing mosques. If they would stop hiring fascists as their Imams I'm sure Mr. Wilders would reconsider his position.

And Christians don't need churches. Jews don't need synagogues. And who is "they"? My imams are not fascists.[/quote]

No they don't, but that's not the issue. The mosques of Europe have become little more than hotbeds of anti-Western political activity; meeting places for extremist Salafist groups. The imams/teachers that are being recruited are not assimilated or Western born generally. When they hire imams they bring them from the "old country", and 99% of the time they come from Salafist madrassas where hatred of Western society is encouraged.

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Mein Kampf is banned in Germany, what's the difference?

You're suggesting that that makes it right?

I own a copy of Mein Kampf. I read it frequently. I own several copies of the Qur'an. I read them frequently. There are no more similarities than any two books are bound to have by definition.[/quote]

I'm suggesting that although I'm generally not in favor of censorship, I can understand the motives behind getting rid of the Quran. I have no problem with a gun in theory, only when that gun is used to kill. I'm sure you do read Mein Kampf frequently, and I'm not surprised given your posts about Israel. They are similar books in that their most devout readers are driven to extreme acts of violence and seek to repress those who disagree with the contents of the books. In Germany there were those who merely collaborated with or acquiesced to Hitler. Moderate Muslims are similar. They profess a belief in an ideology grounded in hate and oppression, but just don't pursue the goals of their religion as actively as the crazier elements among them. They generally aren't inflicting suffering on others however, and so despite how distasteful their beliefs are, must be tolerated.

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I don't believe that in the U.S. you can hold more than one nationality and be in congress, and no one seems to mind that there. If someone were to hold another nationality don't you think even Obama would jump on that if they were his opponent?

Nationality≠citizenship.[/quote]

I believe it does in this context. I know that even some of the non-"far right" parties in Holland have tried to eliminate the ability to hold dual citizenship(Balkenende himself if I'm not mistaken)

I love how people can get away with putting forth the most vile, racist, sexist garbage as long as they call it a religion, and then when their disgusting beliefs are challenged they claim that the challengers are the discriminatory ones. Religion is a cancer, and Islam just happens to be the most immediately dangerous and malignant form at the moment. Anyone who wants to get rid of it, with the exception of those trying to impose a different religion, should be applauded.

You can oppose religion. I have no problem with that. You cannot oppose the practice of religion by others. That violates basic rights. If I want to believe that 2+2=3, that is my perogative.[/quote]

I oppose the practice of any religion that seeks to oppress others and infringe on my "basic rights". It should be the basic right of any gay man to walk down the streets of Rotterdam or the east end and not have to worry about getting beaten for who he is. It should be the basic right of any woman not to be degraded and humiliated, forced to cover herself, told it's her fault if she's raped, and possibly be killed if she decides she has the right to make her own sexual decisions. Religious Islamic courts are ruling a great number of people within Europe, not secular courts. That is unacceptable. These people can't escape this brutal life because they're constantly threatened with hell or physical violence. You could compare it to the FLDS in  southern Utah. They are a group of extremists that need to be eliminated, because the people caught up in that lifestyle have no way out of it. They don't make the choice, and end up with severe psychological damage.

[Hash]

Going to re-do this.

UK: Split between Liberal Democrats and Conservatives
N. Ireland: Alliance, but I'd be on the Catholic/Nat side of the divide instead of the NOTA side. Could very well vote SDLP or SF.
Wales: Plaid Cymru
Scotland: SNP or Scottish Greens
Ireland: Fine Gael
Iceland: Icelandic Movement-Living Land
Norway: Venstre
Sweden: Liberal People's Party or Centre. I'll be able to pin-point more with Gustaf's thread soon
Finland: Green League
Poland: Civic Platform
Russia: Yabloko. Especially since SPS has become another Kremlin party.
Ukraine: Yulia Tymoshenko Bloc. Though I like none of them
Romania: UDMR or PNL
Bulgaria: GERB, I guess. Though I like none of them. Would have support NDSV until it collapsed.
Greece: Did I seriously say ND when I did this? Ecologist Greens, the least bad of awful parties
Serbia: Liberal Democratic Party
Kosovo: New Kosovo Alliance. Though I like none of them
Montenegro: Movement for Changes
Croatia: Croatian Social Liberal Party
Italy: Italian Radicals until they kicked the bucket. Would probably support IdV or PD nationally (anything anti-Berlusconi basically). Would support the SVP in South Tyrol and whatever the French liberal thingee is called in Vallee-d'Aoste.
Switzerland: Green Liberal Party (one of the best parties there is) or the new FDP.Liberals party.
Austria: ÖVP for lack of alternative. LIF if they actually had a chance.
Germany: Greens or FDP
Holland: D66. PvdD is cool too
Belgium: RWF (alternatively, either of greenies or liberals)
Luxembourg: Democratic Party or Déi Gréng
France: If I had to choose, Gauche Moderne or NC.
Spain: PSOE, EAJ-PNV in Basque Country, CiU in Catalonia, and BNG in Galicia.
Portugal: Earth Party
Cyprus: Democratic Rally or United Democrats
Malta: Democratic Alternative (the greenies)
Czech: Green Party
Slovakia: SDKU-DS
BiH: SBiH (Party for Bosnia and Hercegovina)
Slovenia: Youth Party or Zares
Estonia: Centre Party, Reform, or Greens
Lithuania: Liberals' Movement
Latvia: Green Party
Israel: Shinui at best, would vote for the Greens
Turkey: Greens (a tiny new party). All others are ghastly.
Lebanon: National Liberal. Probably wouldn't bother voting/
India: Indian National Congress. Depending on the constituency, I'd vote strategically to block certain parties...
Pakistan: Awami or not vote at all.
Bangladesh: They all suck. I'd vote strategically against the BNP if I did vote.
Thailand: Democrat Party
Taiwan: Non-Partisan Solidarity Union
Japan: DPJ
South Korea: Renewal of Korea Party
Malaysia: Democratic Action, if I bother voting.
Indonesia: None
Australia: AU Democrats or Greens
NZ: Maori Party or ACT
Fiji: None
Mongolia: Democratic Party
Georgia: Saakashvili party, whatever tin-pot name it has.
Armenia: United Labour, though I have no clue.
Azerbaijan: Any opposition party
Saudi Arabia: Green Party
South Africa: Democratic Alliance
Kenya: They all suck
Canada: Green Party or Bloc
Quebec: Green Party or PQ
Ontario: Green Party
Other Provinces: Depends. PC in Newfoundland, Liberals in most other Maritime provinces. Probably Greens in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, and BC. Suicide in Yukon.
Puerto Rico: PIP or the new Green party.
Jamaica: None
Mexico: PAN
Colombia: Oxygen Green Party
Venezuela: Justice First
Brazil: Democrats
Peru: Union for Peru
Ecuador: Institutional Renewal Party of National Action
Bolivia: Social and Democratic Power
Uruguay: Colorado
Argentina: Radical Civic Union
Chilie: National Renewal

[Tender Branson]

Austria: ÖVP for lack of alternative. LIF if they actually had a chance.
Germany: Greens or FDP

Why do you choose the Greens in Germany, but the ÖVP in Austria (allthough I have to mention that the ÖVP is now more acceptable under the more liberal leadership of Josef Pröll than under Schüssel/Molterer) ?

[Hash]

Let's do this completely

UK: Ideally Liberal Democrats, though possibly Conservative in Lab-Con marginal seats.
N. Ireland: NI uses preferential voting, so I'll do it in terms of preferences 1: Alliance, 2: SDLP, 3: Greens, 4: Sinn Fein, 5: UUP, 6: All kooky nats, 7: DUP, 8: All kooky unionists
Wales: Plaid Cymru
Scotland: SNP or Scottish Greens, depending on constituency
Ireland: Ireland uses preferential voting, so 1: Fine Gael, 2: Anti-coalition Greenies, 3: Labour, 4: Pro-coalition Greenies, 5: Fianna Fáil
Iceland: Icelandic Movement-Living Land or Progressive Party
Norway: Venstre, primarily for its environmentalism and secularism, though Høyre is also good. I would never vote for Progress. Ever.
Sweden: Centre, primarily for its environmentalist streak and opposition to the Liberal People's Party pro-Iraq stance and rabidly pro-Israeli stance.
Finland: Green League
Poland: All parties are pretty much the fail. Civic Platform because it's viable and is the most productive opposition to PiS. Economically, though, PO is pretty much the suck too. And I am not voting for the fake liberal "Democrats" or the ex-Communists. Maybe PSL, but I'm not sure the Polish centre is the same as the Scandinavian centre. I would never vote for PiS, Samoobrona, or LPR. Ever.
Russia: Ugh. Yabloko, but they're not viable. Unlike others, I am not going to vote for the Stalinist KPRF just because they're the opposition to Putin. For obvious reasons, I'd never vote YR or LDPR.
Ukraine: Yulia Tymoshenko Bloc or Our Ukraine. The pro-European coalition, basically.
Romania: I have no great love for any of these crooks, except UDMR. On terms of ideology, PNL, but it's another of these corrupt crooks.
Bulgaria: GERB. Though, again, I like none of them. Would have support NDSV until it collapsed.
Greece: I would never vote for the current parliamentary parties. Corrupt ND, incompetent fascist-loving PASOK, 1930s Marxist KKE, the pro-looters SYRIZA, or the anti-semitic asshole LAOS. Ideally, Ecologist Greens or the Liberal Alliance.
Serbia: Liberal Democratic Party or Tadic's coalition. I would never vote for the Radicals, DSS, or SPS.
Kosovo: New Kosovo Alliance. Though I like none of them
Montenegro: Movement for Changes or LPCG are by far the best (or least worst). I would never vote for the Serbs, or Đukanović's crooks.
Croatia: Croatian Social Liberal Party, reluctantly
Italy: Ideally, the Radicals until they kicked the bucket. Today, I'd vote for Italia dei Valori or the PD. Anything anti-Berlusconi that is not on the kooky left. Would support the SVP in South Tyrol and whatever the French liberal thingee is called in Vallee-d'Aoste.
Switzerland: Green Liberal Party (one of the best parties there is out there) or the new FDP.Liberals party. I'd never vote for the SVP-UDC or any of the small fascist parties.
Austria: ÖVP, but I'm not too keen on their historical clericalism. Maybe Greenies. LIF without a doubt if they actually had a chance.
Germany: I could see myself voting for the FDP or Greens anytime, and the CDU depending on who is leading them. I would not vote for the SPD, CSU, or the SED Linke.
Holland: D66, obviously. Though the PvdD is very cool.
Belgium: Gah. RWF or Greenies in Wallonia, Greenies in Flanders. I wouldn't vote for any parties in the coalitions.
Luxembourg: Democratic Party or Déi Gréng.
France: Anything but the left, far-left, far-right, conservative right, crooks, and the fake centre. So, that narrows it down a lot. UMP depending on candidates, or else NC or Gauche moderne.
Spain: PSOE in Spain proper (or, anything but PP or the minority-hating "centrist" UPyD) but EAJ-PNV in Basque Country, CiU in Catalonia, and BNG in Galicia.
Portugal: People's Monarchist Party. Never for the PS, PSD, Commies, Trots, or CDS-PP.
Cyprus: Democratic Rally, United Democrats, maybe even AKEL! I like Christofias.
Malta: Ugh. Democratic Alternative. The two big parties are ghastly.
Czech: Green Party
Slovakia: Free Forum or SDKÚ-DS. I would not vote for the pro-fascist Smer, the openly fascist SNS, or the Mečiar HZDS.
BiH: They all suck.
Slovenia: Zares. Youth Party if they didn't ally with the agrarians.
Estonia: Centre Party, Reform, or Greens.
Lithuania: Liberals' Movement or Labour.
Latvia: Green Party
Israel: Strategic vote for Kadima, though I could see voting for the Greens or Meretz. I would have been a hardcore Shinui supporter in the past.
Turkey: Greens (a tiny new party). I could very reluctantly vote for the CHP or DSP.
Lebanon: National Liberal. Probably wouldn't bother voting/
India: Indian National Congress. Depending on the constituency, I'd vote strategically against the BJP and its allies.
Pakistan: Wouldn't vote for crooks.
Bangladesh: Wouldn't vote for crooks. I'd vote strategically against the BNP if I did vote.
Thailand: Democrat Party, I guess.
Taiwan: Non-Partisan Solidarity Union.
Japan: DPJ or Communist
South Korea: Renewal of Korea Party or Democratic Party.
Malaysia: Democratic Action, if I bother voting. I do not like the DAP's allies.
Indonesia: None
Australia: Preferential voting, so: 1. AUDemocrats or Greens, 2. Greens or AUDemocrats, 3. Socially moderate Liberal, 4. Labor, 5. Liberal, 6. National, 7. The kooky Christians/One Nation.
NZ: All New Zealand parties I could vote for, except NZF or Progressives. Ideally, ACT, United Future, or Maori.
Fiji: None
Mongolia: Democratic Party
Georgia: Saakashvili party, whatever tin-pot name it has.
Armenia: Whatever.
Azerbaijan: Any opposition party, if they have the right to actually exist.
Saudi Arabia: Green Party!
South Africa: Democratic Alliance, the only sane party.
Kenya: They all suck
Canada: ABC. I would vote against the Rednecks Alliance Refooooooorm Conservatives in marginals and Tory-held seats. Whether it means NDP, Liberal, or Bloc, I don't care. In safe seats, Greens, though Elizabeth May is a crappy leader.
Quebec: PQ or Greens. Today the PQ despite being generally federalist since they're viable opposition to that idiot crook Charest.
Ontario: Green Party or Liberal
Other Provinces: Depends. PC in Newfoundland, Liberals in most other Maritime provinces. Probably Greens in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, and BC. Suicide in Yukon.
Puerto Rico: PIP or that new Green party.
Jamaica: None
Mexico: PAN, reluctantly.
Colombia: Oxygen Green Party, I guess. Though I'm pro-Uribe.
Venezuela: Justice First or anything anti-Chavez.
Brazil: Democrats
Peru: Whatever is not pro-Chavez.
Ecuador: Anything anti-Correa (anti-Chavez)
Bolivia: PODEMOS (anti-Morales)
Uruguay: Colorado
Argentina: Radical Civic Union, I guess.
Chilie: I'm kind of split. I like the Concertación alliance (notably the PRSD and PPD), but I'd probably vote for the Alianza coalition (National Renewal).