Wisconsin Primary (Event)

[NHPolitico]

it looks like after all the hoopla the Wisconsin results are gonna look a lot like Iowa:

Iowa results
Kerry   38%
Edwards   32%
Dean   18%

Wisconsin (35% reporting)
Kerry   39%
Edwards   37%
Dean   18%

Everybody gets delegates and Edwards will pretty much get exactly the same number as Kerry. The race continues!

[MarkDel]

Hey guys, I hate to be an "I told you so" but the strong showing of Edwards in Wisconsin lends a lot of credibility to a post I made several weeks ago where I said that the Edwards "populist" message was a major winner for the Democrats if they would only give up the other garbage. Here's what I said a few weeks ago about Edwards and his message:

"So, it's my contention that the average American will be highly suspectible to the rhetoric of Democrats (like John Edwards or Dick Gephardt once one of them becomes the VP candidate to Kerry) who rail against the loss of jobs to foreign workers. I still think Bush is a solid favorite to win, but this Jobs/Trade issue could prove to be the Holy Grail to a Democratic Party which seemingly had ZERO message from 2000 to 2003."

[NHPolitico]

Hey guys, I hate to be an "I told you so" but the strong showing of Edwards in Wisconsin lends a lot of credibility to a post I made several weeks ago where I said that the Edwards "populist" message was a major winner for the Democrats if they would only give up the other garbage. Here's what I said a few weeks ago about Edwards and his message:

"So, it's my contention that the average American will be highly suspectible to the rhetoric of Democrats (like John Edwards or Dick Gephardt once one of them becomes the VP candidate to Kerry) who rail against the loss of jobs to foreign workers. I still think Bush is a solid favorite to win, but this Jobs/Trade issue could prove to be the Holy Grail to a Democratic Party which seemingly had ZERO message from 2000 to 2003."

Edwards should go on Lou Dobbs a few times between now and Super Tuesday. That's two weeks to hit the issue hard.

[MarkDel]

This is sooooo funny. I'm watching Kerry's speech in Wisconsin and all he can talk about is "fair trade" and the loss of jobs overseas. At least someone in his campaign was paying attention to these results.

The bad news for us Republicans is if the Democrats can SHUT THEIR SILLY MOUTHS about weapons of mass destruction and how they'd turn the war on terror into a criminal justice issue, then they might actually win this race if they keeping hammering this fair trade issue.

[John]

Well do you think Dean will drop out
Yes he will

[NHPolitico]

This is sooooo funny. I'm watching Kerry's speech in Wisconsin and all he can talk about is "fair trade" and the loss of jobs overseas. At least someone in his campaign was paying attention to these results.

The bad news for us Republicans is if the Democrats can SHUT THEIR SILLY MOUTHS about weapons of mass destruction and how they'd turn the war on terror into a criminal justice issue, then they might actually win this race if they keeping hammering this fair trade issue.

The GOP can always nominate Pat Buchanan...

[MarkDel]

NHPolitico,

Well...you may have turned me into a "fair trade" guy, but in a race between John Kerry and Pat Buchanan, I'd have to vote for a third party candidate. There is absolutely NO scenario where I would vote for an anti-semitic piece of garbage like Pat Buchanan. Besides, Buchanan wouldn't fight the War on Terror any more aggressively than the Democrats...have you heard his isolationist views on foreign policy?

[NHPolitico]

NHPolitico,

Well...you may have turned me into a "fair trade" guy, but in a race between John Kerry and Pat Buchanan, I'd have to vote for a third party candidate. There is absolutely NO scenario where I would vote for an anti-semitic piece of garbage like Pat Buchanan. Besides, Buchanan wouldn't fight the War on Terror any more aggressively than the Democrats...have you heard his isolationist views on foreign policy?

Pat's just a realist. He thinks that we're committing ourselves to eternal war in the Middle East.

[MarkDel]

Yeah, so I guess it just makes sense to sit back and wait for the terrorists to gain a stronger foothold among the general Muslim population, and wait for the inevitable "end of the world" type scenario when they acquire widespread use of nuclear weapons.

Using Buchanan logic...well...at least we'll have a strong economy when the nuclear missiles start killing millions of Americans. Buchanan's foreign policy positions are a joke...not an anti-american, surrender monkey joke like the Democratic Party, but a joke nonetheless.

[NHPolitico]

Yeah, so I guess it just makes sense to sit back and wait for the terrorists to gain a stronger foothold among the general Muslim population, and wait for the inevitable "end of the world" type scenario when they acquire widespread use of nuclear weapons.

Using Buchanan logic...well...at least we'll have a strong economy when the nuclear missiles start killing millions of Americans. Buchanan's foreign policy positions are a joke...not an anti-american, surrender monkey joke like the Democratic Party, but a joke nonetheless.

Work on better human intelligence and attack actual WMD sites. That's a start in the right direction and away from general pre-emption.

[MarkDel]

NHPolitco,

That won't be enough. Wolfowitz is right, you need to have a profound transformation in the social, economic and political climate in the Middle East. We tried the Buchanan approach under Nixon and all it wrought was increased terrorism and the 1973 war in Israel. The problems in the Middle East are too severe to bandage, there needs to be a full scale surgery.

[TomAtPitt]

One thing that is interesting: The exit polls indicate that Edwards did best among areas and demographic groups that traditionally vote Republicans. Conversely, Kerry may have been saved in Wisconsin by the minority. Vote. The next primaries are in Utah, Idaho, and Hawaii. I can't predict what Hawaii will do as it's demographics are truly unique, but in Utah and Idaho the demographics strongly skew Republican. If Edwards can keep us his strength among GOP-leaning demographics, he could pick up two additional victories.

[MarkDel]

TomatPitt,

I think you might be right, But don't misinterpret the detailed data that comes out of Wisconsin. While Edwards did do MUCH better than Kerry among wealthy primary voters,  wouldn't go so far as to call them Republican leaning. These tend to be what some people call "limousine liberals" or what I prefer to call "I'm ashamed that I make so much money that I feel obligated to feel guilty and thus give away other people's money Liberals"

LOL

[M]

The realist is Bush. You can't run from history, just as Chamberlain couldn't run from Hitler. Hitler was their fight, and thank G-d they didn't give him any more time to prepare for war. Terrorism is our fight, and we'll have to fight it eventually, one way or another. We shoul have moved a long time ago. We must not stop now.

That's one reason I give Edwards the benefit of the doubt. On his site he recommends spreaing democracy around the globe as part of his foreign policy. Only Bush and Lieberman strongly advocated this of the other candidates. Unfortunately, I hane not once heard Edwards speak about worldwide democracy in public.

[MarkDel]

M,

I agree, the Bush/Wolfowitz/Rice/Rumsfeld crowd are the ones who deal in reality.

[M]

I also greatly admire Tony Blair's leadership in this area. The "when you can you shoul" speech was inspiring.

[Demrepdan]

Well do you think Dean will drop out
Yes he will

Do I think that you will answer your own questions given to others?

Yes I do...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Edwards did well
Wisconsin's populist/progressive tradition shows itself yet again!

[JohnFKennedy]

figures from www.thegreenpapers.com says that Kerry got 39.7% of the vote and Edwards got 34.3% of the vote, 32 delegates for Kerry, 26 for Edwards

COME ON EDWARDS!!!

[NHPolitico]

NHPolitico,

Well...you may have turned me into a "fair trade" guy, but in a race between John Kerry and Pat Buchanan, I'd have to vote for a third party candidate. There is absolutely NO scenario where I would vote for an anti-semitic piece of garbage like Pat Buchanan. Besides, Buchanan wouldn't fight the War on Terror any more aggressively than the Democrats...have you heard his isolationist views on foreign policy?

Pat's not anti-semitic. He believes that the interests of other nations aren't always the same as ours. Another guy believed that, too:

"Nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations and passionate attachments for others should be excluded, and that in place of them just and amicable feelings toward all should be cultivated. The nation, which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness, is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest." - George Washington

Another brilliant man, Alexander Hamilton, wrote, "In respect to our foreign politics, the views of these gentlemen [Jefferson and Madison] are, in my judgment, equally unsound, and dangerous. They have a womanish attachment to France, and a womanish resentment against Great Britain. They would draw us into the closest embrace of the former, and involve us in all the consequences of her politics; and they would risk the peace of the country, in their endeavors to keep us at the greatest possible distance from the latter."

[© tweed]

Edwards did well
Wisconsin's populist/progressive tradition shows itself yet again!

Robert LaFollette!  Battling Bob!

[NHPolitico]

Besides, Buchanan wouldn't fight the War on Terror any more aggressively than the Democrats...have you heard his isolationist views on foreign policy?

Buchanan would absolutely fight the War on Terror and make Americans safer and still keep our freedoms.  

He supported declaring war on the terrorists responsible for 9/11 and the nations that harbor them.  Was Saddam involved in the massacres of Sept. 11? Was he behind the anthrax attacks? Was he harboring terrorist cells of al-Qaida? Was he preparing nuclear or bio-terror weapons to attack us?  The answer is no.  We must make it clear that we will be strong and swift in punishment for attacking the US-- that's how you keep enemies at bay.  

Going to war in Iraq hurt our post-9/11 anti-terror ties with Britain, Russia and NATO and shattered the Afghan war coalition and inflamed the Arab street (its population who can be recruited to terrorize us) and destabilize our Arab allies-- Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

Pat would protect us by supporting an immediate moratorium on all immigration, expanding the Border Patrol to 20,000, which would still give us only three Border Patrol personnel for each mile of our 6,000 miles of borders with Canada and Mexico, slashing radically the number of visas we extend to states that harbor terrorists, expediting the deportation of the eight-to-11 million illegal aliens, beginning with those from rogue nations, and stop any plans for amnesty.

He'd also move out the UN from the U.S., and thus remove from the United States all diplomats of states that harbor terrorists, denying them diplomatic immunity and diplomatic pouches as they do their dirty business with their sleeper agents already inside the U.S.A.  

He'd also warn that any terrorist caught in the U.S. on a mission of massacre will go before a military tribunal and be put to death quickly and in secret, as we did to German saboteurs we captured during WW2.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Edwards did well
Wisconsin's populist/progressive tradition shows itself yet again!

Robert LaFollette!  Battling Bob!

Exactly

[MarkDel]

NHPolitico,

Buchanan initially did not endorse the war in Afghanistan. He remained silent until it started going well, then he said he was in favor of it. He also opposed the first Gulf War. He opposes anything that has a positive impact on our ally Israel and/or a negative impact on any nation or group that HATES Israel.

If you doubt his anti-semitism, try reading the article I linked below. If you still think he's not anti-semitic...

http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html

[MarkDel]

NHPolitico,

By the way, Buchanan even incorrectly defines what constitutes a "neo-conservative" in order to paint them all as Jewish leftists who moved to the right just to help Israel. Buchanan may not be Adolf Hitler, but he would have looked pretty nifty in a SS Uniform.