The REAL issue on John Kerry
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  The REAL issue on John Kerry
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Author Topic: The REAL issue on John Kerry  (Read 6727 times)
MarkDel
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« on: February 14, 2004, 05:21:58 AM »

The whole John Kerry Sex rumors do not impact me one way or the other. Personally I could care less where he stuck his...BUT

The real issue on Kerry is about National Security. Later in this thread I'll post some of his anti-military votes from his days in the Senate, but let's start out with this fact of ancient history...since Bush's 30 year old National Guard service seems to be a legit issue, I guess this 30 year old tidbit is as well.

On April 22, 1971, John Kerry testified before the United States Senate about Vietnam. In that tesitmony, he claimed that US soldiers engaged in all kinds of atrocities involving torture and/or murder of Vietnamese civilians.

Now, based on THAT testimony, let's see the Kerry supporters on this forum deal with the following riddle.

True or False: It is a criminal act under military law for a US soldier to witness a war crime (torture or murder of a non-combatant) and not report it? ANSWER is TRUE

True or False: John Kerry gave testimony before the US Senate where he backed up claims made by non-military anti-war advocates that US soldiers committed atrocities in Vietnam that amounted to war crimes, and Kerry testified that he had personal knowledge of such crimes?
ANSWER is TRUE

True or False: John Kerry never reported these alleged crimes while he was still an active member of the US Armed Forces?
ANSWER is TRUE

Well, then that means one of the following FACTS aboslutely MUST be true:

1. John Kerry LIED and PERJURED himself before the US Senate.

2. John Kerry was guilty of a major offense that could have amounted to a war crime by not reporting his fellow soldiers.

Well, that's all for now folks. Ponder that one for a day or so and then I'll be back with some examples of his votes as a Senator. If Kerry had been the man in charge of arming the United States military, we'd still be using 1960's era technology.
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2004, 07:39:26 AM »

yawn!  Mudslinging begins!
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Gustaf
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2004, 08:20:37 AM »

I can understand that someone would be unwilling to report his fellow soldiers out in the field. These things are very often not allowed to be reported, unofficially of course. I am reminded of that movie with Tom Cruise and Demi Moore, about the guy who's murdered in Gunatanamo base.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2004, 08:35:25 AM »
« Edited: February 14, 2004, 08:37:43 AM by dazzleman »

I agree that the issue on John Kerry is national security.

He is using his Vietnam service to cover up the fact that he is a classic liberal on national security.  He does not believe that we should defend ourselves, and a Kerry presidency would be various dangerous to the safety of the American people.  The Clinton presidency brought us 9/11, and the Kerry presidency could bring us something much worse.

I don't think it's mudslinging to question Kerry's credentials on this very important issue.  I am far less concerned with what any candidate did 30 years ago than their stand on our security today.  And Kerry is simply not credible.

I really don't care where he stuck his male member.  One thing I never blamed Clinton for was cheating on Hillary.  If I were married to that, I'd be cheating too.  And Kerry's wife seems to be cut from the same cloth, so that's really not the issue.  I guess $700 million does cover up a lot of flaws.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2004, 08:52:51 AM »

Especially as he's allowed to use it to finance his political campaigns if Heinz-Kerry thinks that either of them is being libeled/slandered in any way...
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2004, 10:39:32 AM »

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agcatter
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2004, 11:40:31 AM »

Good one.  Let's see if Kerry looks like Patton to the electorate after they get a load of his 20 year voting record on national security.  There are two sides in a campaign and one side has patiently been holding its fire.....
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NHPolitico
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2004, 12:35:23 PM »



The real issue on Kerry is about National Security. Later in this thread I'll post some of his anti-military votes from his days in the Senate...

Well, that's all for now folks. Ponder that one for a day or so and then I'll be back with some examples of his votes as a Senator. If Kerry had been the man in charge of arming the United States military, we'd still be using 1960's era technology.


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zachman
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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2004, 01:10:29 PM »

It is a questionable issur for the Republicans to attack Kerry's Vietnam record. In the end it will remind people that he is a veteran, and that will backfire for the republicans.
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opebo
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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2004, 01:43:34 PM »

It is a questionable issur for the Republicans to attack Kerry's Vietnam record. In the end it will remind people that he is a veteran, and that will backfire for the republicans.

There's a lot more here than whether Kerry's a veteran or betrayed his fellow soldiers upon returning to consort with Jane Fonda in the US.  The big issue is that like a lot of Vietnam veterans he was turned into a complete defeatist.  Given the current context - continued determination by numerous enemies to kill Americans - it seems to me this type of Vietnam-era anti-war type is singularly unqualified to be President.
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agcatter
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« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2004, 01:52:19 PM »

They won't be attacking his Vietnam record.  They will be attacking his 20 year record on national security.  And quite a record it is.......

If Kerry's people try to say that his voting rercord is off limits because of his record in Vietnam, well, I'd love for that public debate to take place.  Sweet.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2004, 02:17:55 PM »

It is a questionable issur for the Republicans to attack Kerry's Vietnam record. In the end it will remind people that he is a veteran, and that will backfire for the republicans.

There's a lot more here than whether Kerry's a veteran or betrayed his fellow soldiers upon returning to consort with Jane Fonda in the US.  The big issue is that like a lot of Vietnam veterans he was turned into a complete defeatist.  Given the current context - continued determination by numerous enemies to kill Americans - it seems to me this type of Vietnam-era anti-war type is singularly unqualified to be President.
He was a young man at the time, political maturity at that age isn't very common. He did show bravery, that says something. I agree with Zachman that there's a risk in talking about Vietnam, so I don't think they will. They'll attack his record, which is bad enough... Sad
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zachman
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« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2004, 02:22:55 PM »

And plus that gives Kerry and the dems. an opportunity to discuss Bush's supression of free speech, which will excite our hatred of BUsh.
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agcatter
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« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2004, 03:53:49 PM »

"they'll attack his record which is bad enough".

Huh?  Since when is it off limits to attack someone's record?  Oh, I get it.  It's been OK for Dems to hammer Bush's record for the last 12 months night and day, but it's "bad" if Bush goes after Kerry's.  That seems fair.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2004, 05:31:24 PM »

"they'll attack his record which is bad enough".

Huh?  Since when is it off limits to attack someone's record?  Oh, I get it.  It's been OK for Dems to hammer Bush's record for the last 12 months night and day, but it's "bad" if Bush goes after Kerry's.  That seems fair.

Ehhh...that isn't what I meant, though I can see how it could be interpreted that way. What I meant was "they'll attack his record which is bad enough for Kerry, since it might give Bush the election".
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Huckleberry Finn
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« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2004, 05:35:48 PM »

If Kerry will fall, it is because there is this voting record.
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agcatter
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« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2004, 05:38:16 PM »

OK, sorry.  I misunderstood your post.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2004, 05:57:29 PM »

OK, sorry.  I misunderstood your post.

It's OK, it was badly phrased, but I'm not the kind to reason in such a way.
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agcatter
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« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2004, 06:34:34 PM »

I should know that by now.  Again, my apologies.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2004, 06:38:06 PM »

You know I've seen a lot of responses by Kerry supporters here, but none explaining where my original post was wrong...

Kerry either lied to the US Senate or he condoned a war crime...please explain how my conclusion is wrong...
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Gustaf
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« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2004, 06:39:09 PM »

I should know that by now.  Again, my apologies.

It's fine. Smiley I can see how it could be mmisunderstood, but I didn't think of that way of interpreting it. I'll probably misunderstand you at least once before election day... Wink
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NHPolitico
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« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2004, 07:38:59 PM »

Kerry will be painted as a Massachusetts liberal who opposed  balanced budgets and the balanced budget amendment and who opposed vital weapons systems and opposed the ban on PBA and the soon-to-be-presented defense of marriage amendment and supports gun control and taxpayer-funded abortions.

That's the paragraph on Kerry.  
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Beet
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« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2004, 08:02:46 PM »

But the primary voters think he's electable above all things so he must be. The voters can't be stupid, after all.
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StevenNick
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« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2004, 08:05:13 PM »

Good one.  Let's see if Kerry looks like Patton to the electorate after they get a load of his 20 year voting record on national security.  There are two sides in a campaign and one side has patiently been holding its fire.....

Speaking of Patton, didn't he accuse Kerry of "giving aid and comfort to the enemy" after Kerry's disgraceful activity in the war protests and the "winter soldier investigation" in the early 70s?
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MarkDel
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« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2004, 08:09:31 PM »

Steven,

No. Patton died less than a year after World War II, but there were HOSTS of military veterans who accused Kerry of giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
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