Return to September 10th Bill [Final passage at vote]

[Meeker]

Return to September 10th Bill

Section 1: Telecommunications Immunity Clarification
1. The current Atlasian government acknowledges that after the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001, telecommunications companies cooperated with the United States government in providing illegal access to customers' private information, including conversations which were 'wiretapped.'
2. The current Atlasian government supports prosecuting all companies involved, as well as anyone found guilty of providing these orders within the government, to the fullest extent of the law.

Section 2: Torture and Simulated Drowning
1. The government recognizes that torture is, and has been regardless of the September 11th, 2001 terrorist attacks, illegal, as confirmed in F.L. 22-7.
2. Simulated drowning, or 'waterboarding,' is a form of torture and remains prohibited by law.
3. The current government encourages that any member of the government found to have ordered or performed acts of torture be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

Section 3: Free Speech Zones
1. The use of "free speech zones" as restricted areas where protesting may be permitted is to be discontinued immediately.

Section 4: PATRIOT Act
1. The PATRIOT Act is repealed.

Section 5: Guantanamo Bay
1. The prison camp located at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba is to be closed within two months after this act becomes law.


Sponsor: Meekermariner (Ebowed)

[afleitch]

I support this bill wholeheartedly, with some reservations regarding Section 5. We cannot shut down Guantanamo without establishing where those who are incarcerated should go.

[Хahar 🤔]

What would be the effect of Section 3?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

What has Guantanamo Bay got to do with Atlasia?

[Sam Spade]

Naturally, I oppose this bill.

[Hash]

I motion to strike Section 5.

[Ebowed]

I motion to strike Section 5.

Why?

[Hash]

I motion to strike Section 5.

Why?

Like afleitch said, we can't shut it down without establishing in writing where those there go.

[Brandon H]

The USA PATRIOT Act expired a while back and in Atlasia was never renewed.

[Bacon King]

I like this bill.

[afleitch]

I propose the following amendment.

Section 5: Guantanamo Bay
1. The prison camp located at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba is to be closed within six months after this act becomes law.

2.
a. All those presently detained without due charge or detained though any other process of the law shall be released to their country of origin.
b. All those detained with due charge or detained though any other process of the law shall be put on trial.
c. All those who have been formally found guilty of charges brought before the court shall be transferred to a maximum security prison in Atlasia as per instructions of the judge.
d. All those found not guilty shall be released to their country of origin.

[minionofmidas]

I propose the following amendment.

Section 5: Guantanamo Bay
1. The prison camp located at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba is to be closed within six months after this act becomes law.

2.
a. All those presently detained without due charge or detained though any other process of the law shall be released to their country of origin.
b. All those detained with due charge or detained though any other process of the law shall be put on trial.
c. All those who have been formally found guilty of charges brought before the court shall be transferred to a maximum security prison in Atlasia as per instructions of the judge.
d. All those found not guilty shall be released to their country of origin.

That doesn't solve anything.

-There is nobody charged as of right now irl, and only one convicted - and he's not at Gitmo anymore. (He made a bargain according to which both he and his home country - Australia - accepted the validity of the current legal setup - he was officially sentenced, and he could go home. He spent a couple of months in an Australian prison, and was released this december.)
Two more people were charged under the current setup, but these charges were dismissed. They nonetheless remain at Gitmo.

-I am not prepared to accept Bush's kangaroo court's verdicts - now Congress' kangaroo court, sorry bout that - as valid sentences by a legitimate court of law, due largely to judicial independence issues.
The US Supreme Court will rule on the issue again in Summer.

-Because the framework that set them up was set up well after Atlasia was founded, it can be safely considered not to exist in Atlasia (even if Atlasia does have a base at Gitmo, something I'm not too sure about.) Therefore, in Atlasia at any rate, Sections 2b and 2c are meaningless.

-Some of the people at Gitmo are (still) there only because releasing them to their country of origin would mean their certain death. A number of Chinese citizens, for instance. We'd need an asylum provision for these people. Even though they are, of course, Islamists, and potentially violent ones at that.
Approximately 70 of the approximately 355 at Gitmo are there either because of that or because their home country refuses to take them back. Approximately 420 additional people have passed through Gitmo's gates during the term of its existence.

[minionofmidas]

The USA PATRIOT Act expired a while back and in Atlasia was never renewed.

Brandon is right.

I propose an amendment to strike that section.

[Sam Spade]

I guess I'm going to have to propose an amendment to reinstitute the Patriot act.

[bullmoose88]

What has Guantanamo Bay got to do with Atlasia?

^^^

This. 


(sorry for butting in, I got lost on my way to chambers...but i dont know if anyone has the america/atlasia question quite sorted out yet)

[minionofmidas]

What has Guantanamo Bay got to do with Atlasia?

^^^

This. 


(sorry for butting in, I got lost on my way to chambers...but i dont know if anyone has the america/atlasia question quite sorted out yet)

No we haven't.

[Verily]

I think it's pretty well-established that we inherited everything that was true of the US before 2004, which would include Guantanamo.

[minionofmidas]

I think it's pretty well-established that we inherited everything that was true of the US before 2004, which would include Guantanamo.

Yes... but if (as some deluded fools still maintain) a) we replaced the US rather than duplicate it in miniature and b) all the moderation "events", even those of Ford's term, really happened and what wasn't mentioned here didn't happen ... then I wonder who currently lives in Gitmo. Everybody who was there the day Atlasia started? Which is which day exactly, btw?

There is no restoration of logic without recognition of the US.
This doesn't preclude the fact that we don't also have our own Gitmo.

[Meeker]

Alright, there's been possibly 4 amendments proposed here. If you've proposed an amendment and still want a vote on it, please repost it so we can be clear.

[minionofmidas]

Alright, there's been possibly 4 amendments proposed here. If you've proposed an amendment and still want a vote on it, please repost it so we can be clear.

I'm aware of three:

I motion to strike Section 5.

I propose the following amendment.

Section 5: Guantanamo Bay
1. The prison camp located at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba is to be closed within six months after this act becomes law.

2.
a. All those presently detained without due charge or detained though any other process of the law shall be released to their country of origin.
b. All those detained with due charge or detained though any other process of the law shall be put on trial.
c. All those who have been formally found guilty of charges brought before the court shall be transferred to a maximum security prison in Atlasia as per instructions of the judge.
d. All those found not guilty shall be released to their country of origin.

The USA PATRIOT Act expired a while back and in Atlasia was never renewed.

Brandon is right.

I propose an amendment to strike that section.

[Meeker]

Alright, there's been possibly 4 amendments proposed here. If you've proposed an amendment and still want a vote on it, please repost it so we can be clear.

I'm aware of three:

I motion to strike Section 5.

I propose the following amendment.

Section 5: Guantanamo Bay
1. The prison camp located at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba is to be closed within six months after this act becomes law.

2.
a. All those presently detained without due charge or detained though any other process of the law shall be released to their country of origin.
b. All those detained with due charge or detained though any other process of the law shall be put on trial.
c. All those who have been formally found guilty of charges brought before the court shall be transferred to a maximum security prison in Atlasia as per instructions of the judge.
d. All those found not guilty shall be released to their country of origin.

The USA PATRIOT Act expired a while back and in Atlasia was never renewed.

Brandon is right.

I propose an amendment to strike that section.

Sam psuedo-proposed to reinstitute the USAPATRIOT Act.

[minionofmidas]

Alright, there's been possibly 4 amendments proposed here. If you've proposed an amendment and still want a vote on it, please repost it so we can be clear.

I'm aware of three:

I motion to strike Section 5.

I propose the following amendment.

Section 5: Guantanamo Bay
1. The prison camp located at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba is to be closed within six months after this act becomes law.

2.
a. All those presently detained without due charge or detained though any other process of the law shall be released to their country of origin.
b. All those detained with due charge or detained though any other process of the law shall be put on trial.
c. All those who have been formally found guilty of charges brought before the court shall be transferred to a maximum security prison in Atlasia as per instructions of the judge.
d. All those found not guilty shall be released to their country of origin.

The USA PATRIOT Act expired a while back and in Atlasia was never renewed.

Brandon is right.

I propose an amendment to strike that section.

Sam psuedo-proposed to reinstitute the USAPATRIOT Act.

All he said is "I guess I'm going to have to do that", he hasn't actually done so so far.

[Sam Spade]

I may do it eventually...  Though it's obviously going nowhere.

[Meeker]

We are now voting on the following three amendments. Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.


Amendment 1

I motion to strike Section 5.

Amendment 2

I propose the following amendment.

Section 5: Guantanamo Bay
1. The prison camp located at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba is to be closed within six months after this act becomes law.

2.
a. All those presently detained without due charge or detained though any other process of the law shall be released to their country of origin.
b. All those detained with due charge or detained though any other process of the law shall be put on trial.
c. All those who have been formally found guilty of charges brought before the court shall be transferred to a maximum security prison in Atlasia as per instructions of the judge.
d. All those found not guilty shall be released to their country of origin.

Amendment 3

The USA PATRIOT Act expired a while back and in Atlasia was never renewed.

Brandon is right.

I propose an amendment to strike that section.

[Hash]

aye
nay
aye