Was the expulsion of Germans from east of the Oder-Neisse justified?

[afleitch]

After WW2 with the reorganisation of Europe

'The policy was one of a number of expulsions in various Central and Eastern European countries which displaced and relocated a number of nationalities in addition to the Germans. Stalin had made the westward shift of borders part of his demands and these had been acceded to by the U.S. and the U.K. Initially, the U.S. and the U.K. saw the expulsions as necessary to create ethnic homogeneity and to suppress ethnic violence originating from expansion of Germans towards the East. All three Allies had agreed to the policy of the expulsions, and the Soviet Union implemented the policy with U.S. and British acquiescence. The policy had been agreed to by the Allies as part of the reconfiguration of postwar Europe.'

Was this justified?

[Michael Z]

Probably not justified if you judge it on a rational basis (it was basically an act of "revenge" against the Germans, as was the mass explusion from the Sudetenland, etc), but then the aftermath of WW2, like the war that preceded it, was such a messy and utterly insane period in history that it's difficult to see how anyone was thinking straight at the time.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I might post more later (or might not; who knows), but what I'll say for now is that people tend to forget that many of the people who moved into these areas when the Germans were deported had themselves been forced out of their homes further east. Looking at it as a singular event is, IMO at least, a mistake.

[Хahar 🤔]

I might post more later (or might not; who knows), but what I'll say for now is that people tend to forget that many of the people who moved into these areas when the Germans were deported had themselves been forced out of their homes further east. Looking at it as a singular event is, IMO at least, a mistake.

Two wrongs don't make a right; the idea that Russia could keep the gains it made when Poland was partitioned was deeply wrong, as was the Oder-Neisse line.

[dead0man]

Yeah, Poland got hurt more by these practices than did Germany, didn't they?  And the Baltic states got a pretty short end of the stick as well.

[specific_name]

No. It was apart of Stalin's policy of making an ethnically homogeneous Poland. It was not a maneuver that improved anyone's welfare or served a useful purpose (other than assuring Poland as a USSR satellite). A great many people died in all these forced migrations. What happened in the East was terribly tragic, no matter who you want to blame.

[jeron]

No, but it was caused by the conditions at the end of the war. Russia had lost at least 20 million people during the war and the greater part of the country west of Moscow had been destroyed. Of course they wanted compensation for this. As a compromise they got the east of Poland and in return Poland got the eastern part of Germany.

[dead0man]

And everybody got the shaft.


edit-except for the Communist leaders of course.  They lived like Kings.

[Хahar 🤔]

And everybody got the shaft.


edit-except for the Communist leaders of course.  They lived like Kings.

And they continue to. In 1995, Poland kicked out Wałęsa and put in one of them.

[Middle-aged Europe]

An atrocity committed as revenge for an even greater atrocity.

But I'm glad the expulsion happened... otherwise I wouldn't have been born.

[dead0man]

And everybody got the shaft.


edit-except for the Communist leaders of course.  They lived like Kings.

And they continue to. In 1995, Poland kicked out Wałęsa and put in one of them.

If Communists acted like he did as President they'd still be around....and wouldn't be called Communists.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

The funny thing about this thread was that I was thinking the very same thing a few days ago...

However I'm not really going into detail here except to say that I don't think it was justified, but that it certainly was understandable.

[Stranger in a strange land]

No, two wrongs don't make a right, but given the insanity and slaughter prevailing at the time in Europe, events like this were probably unavoidable.

[specific_name]

An atrocity committed as revenge for an even greater atrocity.

But I'm glad the expulsion happened... otherwise I wouldn't have been born.

Neither would I. I can't say it makes me glad, considering what happened to that side of my family and they were not even 100% German; that probably was the problem. I guess they were lucky since some escaped to Canada by the 50's.

[jokerman]

No, just a result of expected Russian paranoia.

[minionofmidas]

And everybody got the shaft.


edit-except for the Communist leaders of course.  They lived like Kings.

Not exactly. About a hundred families including the very top leadership of the SED - right up to Honecker himself - lived on Hermann Göring's former estate of Wandlitz just outside of Berlin.

[dead0man]

Are you saying they didn't live like kings or they weren't communist leaders?

[Хahar 🤔]

Are you saying they didn't live like kings or they weren't communist leaders?

The latter isn't possible due to other things he says in the post, so it must be the former.

[GMantis]

I think it's wrong to place the blame entirely on the Soviets, the Czech and Poles were calling for this during the war and the eastward expansion of Poland was approved in a referendum.

No, just a result of expected Russian paranoia.

Well, considering what the US for far less serious reasons saw fit to inflict on the Japanese, I shudder to think what they would do if they had suffered similar casualties as the Soviets (instead of their insignificant ones) - Japanese probably wouldn't be spoken in Japan.

And everybody got the shaft.


edit-except for the Communist leaders of course.  They lived like Kings.

Not exactly. About a hundred families including the very top leadership of the SED - right up to Honecker himself - lived on Hermann Göring's former estate of Wandlitz just outside of Berlin.

Yes, it's very silly to claim the Communist Leaders lived like kings, especially when one compares them to their successors.