Question on Catholicism (Yay!)

[12th Doctor]

The list of popes fascinates me. (Does it to anyone else?) But there's one thing that confuses me. What difference between Pope-elect Stephen and Adrian V is there that makes the latter Pope but the former a simple priest?

Stephen had not yet been consecrated a bishop at the time of his death.  It took a long time for the Vatican to hammer the system out, as evidenced by the irregularities in the numberings of Stephens and Johns (there is no John XX), but it was decided that, if you were a bishop when proclaimed Pope, then you automatically became the pope, you just had to be formally installed at the Lateran.  If you were not yet a bishop at the time of your being proclaimed pope, then you were not the Pope until becoming a Bishop.

The latter circumstance will likely never happen again, as a non-bishop hasn't been named a Cardinal is several centuries and a non-Cardinal hasn't been chosen in at least as long.

[12th Doctor]

Also interesting is how there was once a female pope.

Also interesting about how that never happened.

Not only can we trace the origins of that legend and why, we can also patently disprove it.

[12th Doctor]

Also interesting is how there was once a female pope.

Do you really believe that?

The myth of Pope Joan is about as creditable as the Prophesies of St. Malachy, which is to say not at all.

[12th Doctor]

Also interesting is how there was once a female pope.

Do you really believe that?

The myth of Pope Joan is about as creditable as the Prophesies of St. Malachy, which is to say not at all.

I'd say the Prophecies are much more credible than Pope Joan; they've been bought into by serious Catholics, if in a half-joking way.

The Prophesies were "rediscovered" in the 1500's.  Hmmm... interesting how, looking at the mottos, the ones prior to the 1500's are dead on accurate, whereas with the ones after then, you have to stretch the absolute limits of your imagination to get them to fit.  And the one for Benedict XIV can't even be bended to fit him at all.  "A rural animal"... he was from the second largest city in Italy at the time.  Where you look at this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes#cite_note-70 And see how hard people have tried to make the other ones work, then realize that his explanation is blank, that just goes to show how off it is.

Eitherway, they are both utter crap... and even if they were real, it is almost certain the "Peter the Roman" prediction was added after the original prophesies.

[12th Doctor]

Also interesting is how there was once a female pope.

Do you really believe that?

The myth of Pope Joan is about as creditable as the Prophesies of St. Malachy, which is to say not at all.

I'd say the Prophecies are much more credible than Pope Joan; they've been bought into by serious Catholics, if in a half-joking way.

The Prophesies were "rediscovered" in the 1500's.  Hmmm... interesting how, looking at the mottos, the ones prior to the 1500's are dead on accurate, whereas with the ones after then, you have to stretch the absolute limits of your imagination to get them to fit.  And the one for Benedict XIV can't even be bended to fit him at all.  "A rural animal"... he was from the second largest city in Italy at the time.  Where you look at this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes#cite_note-70 And see how hard people have tried to make the other ones work, then realize that his explanation is blank, that just goes to show how off it is.

Eitherway, they are both utter crap... and even if they were real, it is almost certain the "Peter the Roman" prediction was added after the original prophesies.

Yeah; it's good for a laugh, though.

Yeah, but I recently had a debate with my aunt over it, because she is the kind of Catholic who believes it just because a few people take it seriously (she is not a scholar) and because she is convinced the end is coming soon anyway.

[12th Doctor]

Also interesting is how there was once a female pope.

Do you really believe that?

The myth of Pope Joan is about as creditable as the Prophesies of St. Malachy, which is to say not at all.

I'd say the Prophecies are much more credible than Pope Joan; they've been bought into by serious Catholics, if in a half-joking way.

The Prophesies were "rediscovered" in the 1500's.  Hmmm... interesting how, looking at the mottos, the ones prior to the 1500's are dead on accurate, whereas with the ones after then, you have to stretch the absolute limits of your imagination to get them to fit.  And the one for Benedict XIV can't even be bended to fit him at all.  "A rural animal"... he was from the second largest city in Italy at the time.  Where you look at this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes#cite_note-70 And see how hard people have tried to make the other ones work, then realize that his explanation is blank, that just goes to show how off it is.

Eitherway, they are both utter crap... and even if they were real, it is almost certain the "Peter the Roman" prediction was added after the original prophesies.

Yeah; it's good for a laugh, though.

Yeah, but I recently had a debate with my aunt over it, because she is the kind of Catholic who believes it just because a few people take it seriously (she is not a scholar) and because she is convinced the end is coming soon anyway.

The last prophecy doesn't actually predict The End, does it? Or is that synonymous with the last pope?

Depends on exactly what theology you follow.

I don't really believe in a literal end times, so I think the papacy is going to go on forever.

Those who do believe in "End Times" or more appropriately the "New Earth" would tell you that the two evens would be synonymous and, in fact, the New Earth requires an end to the Papacy, as it would, by definition, usher in an era where the Papacy as an institution is unnecessary.  If Christ rules directly over the Earth again, then there is no need for a Vicar of Christ.

[12th Doctor]

Wow... this is too good to delete.  I think I'll enshrine it in the museum of idiocy instead.

[12th Doctor]

WOW....ok, no more questions about Catholicism....

I especially like how he claims that God has risen him from the grave to take on the task of being the final Pope.

If that were true, one thinks that a Swiss Guard or two might have noticed a walking out from under St. Peter's.

[12th Doctor]

WOW....ok, no more questions about Catholicism....

I especially like how he claims that God has risen him from the grave to take on the task of being the final Pope.

If that were true, one thinks that a Swiss Guard or two might have noticed a walking out from under St. Peter's.

That doesn't have to be so!  He claimed he's John the Baptist, not Simon Peter.  Of course, if he is a reanimated John the Baptist, he might find it a bit hard to get ahead in life.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Ah... I missed that part.  I assumed, from the first part, that he was claiming to be Peter.

[12th Doctor]

I found his "work" on another forum:

http://www.cathinfo.com/index.php?a=topic&t=10146

[12th Doctor]

In this other forum, BTW, he uses the same idiotic argument to demonstrate that he clearly misunderstands the meaning of the word "claim".  "Claims" can be true or false... but I guess the resurrected John the Baptist has no time to look such things up in the dictionary... or even learn to use a word the way the rest of us do.

[12th Doctor]

I say we delete this thread, delete his account, and if the police show up, we deny we ever heard of "Edward Palamar"

Yeah, I actually agree now.  If he had sent the one post, it would have been funny, but I have followed him around the internet, and judging from what I have seen, we really don't want to go through with this.  That Catholic site I flashed up is full of nutters and even they had an easy time mocking his claims.