Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 22, 2014, 07:02:35 pm
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
| |-+  Presidential Election Trends (Moderators: Mr. Morden, Bacon King)
| | |-+  If McCain loses the election...
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: If McCain loses the election...  (Read 6326 times)
nclib
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8825


View Profile
« on: April 20, 2008, 08:56:52 pm »
Ignore

...will the GOP blame their loss on nominating a (by GOP standards) moderate?
Logged



[George W. Bush] has shattered the myth of white supremacy once and for all. -- Congressman Charles Rangel (D-NY)

"George Bush supports abstinence. Lucky Laura."
- sign seen at the March for Women's Lives, 4/25/04

Smash255
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14372


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2008, 09:17:45 pm »
Ignore

Well they were stupid enough to blame 06 on not being conservative enough so they probably would.
Logged

Stranger in a strange land
strangeland
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6329
United States


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2008, 12:46:15 pm »
Ignore

Well they were stupid enough to blame 06 on not being conservative enough so they probably would.

yes, obviously. That's what they do every time they lose an election.
Logged

Nym90
nym90
Modadmin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15199
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -2.96

P P P

View Profile
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2008, 12:59:07 pm »
Ignore

Certainly. Everyone talks about Clinton wanting Obama to lose in 2008, but don't you think Romney and Huckabee are cheering as strongly if not more so for a McCain loss?
Logged
Kevin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4890
United States


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2008, 01:47:50 pm »
Ignore

Certainly. Everyone talks about Clinton wanting Obama to lose in 2008, but don't you think Romney and Huckabee are cheering as strongly if not more so for a McCain loss?

Maybe Romney?

But Huckabee and McCain appear to be on good terms with each other.
Logged

only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58778
India


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2008, 02:54:45 pm »
Ignore

Will McCain get killed before the election if he chooses a high-profile conservative running mate? Presumably not.
More serious question: Will McCain's political career be over after his defeat? Will he at least serve out his Senate term?
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
Torie
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 27404
United States


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2008, 04:10:31 pm »
Ignore

Will McCain get killed before the election if he chooses a high-profile conservative running mate? Presumably not.
More serious question: Will McCain's political career be over after his defeat? Will he at least serve out his Senate term?

McCain will be a very important player in the Senate, with a Dem president. He will determine what is subjected to a filibuster that will stick, and what won't be.
Logged

JSojourner
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11629
United States


Political Matrix
E: -8.65, S: -6.94

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2008, 10:24:28 pm »
Ignore

...will the GOP blame their loss on nominating a (by GOP standards) moderate?

I can't say what they WILL do.  I can only offer what many conservative Republicans said would happen when they were opposing McCain in the primaries.  Limbaugh, Savage and the rest of those pea-brains said "our party loses whenever it nominates a centrist".  They would cite Ford in 1976, H.W. Bush in 1992 (they say he only won in 88 because Dukakis was so awful) and Dole in 1996. They further suggest that the farther right the candidate is -- the better his chance of winning.  Nixon in 68 and 72, Reagan in 80 and 84 and The Decider in 00 and 04.

They might be on to something.  Moderate Republicans tend to be intelligent, analytical and prone to handling complex problems comprehensively.  Like most Democrats do.  They sometimes even arrive at very similar conclusions as Democrats, though often -- because they are good at "nuance" -- they can manage to address complex problems with a combination of government and private sector initiative.   The American public however is conservative.  Joe and Suzy Sixpack like them some simple answers to complex problems.  They prefer not to think too hard, sacrifice too much or move out of their own personal comfort zone.  When they say they like a candidate who they can have a beer with, they mean -- "We don't like big words, long sentences with lots of syllables or any solution that might require us to do our part." 

A Colin Powell, a Gerald Ford or a Margaret Chase-Smith would likely irritate the hell out of most voters -- assuming they remained true to their centrist principles. 

John McCain is a bit harder to pin down.  In the case of Nixon, you have a slippery fellow who campaigned from the hard right and yet -- aside from Vietnam -- pretty much governed from the center or center-right. H.W. Bush campaigned from the right, but governed from the center.  The Decider campaigned from the hard right in the primary, from the center in the general and has governed -- well, if you can call it "governing" -- from the hard right on war, from the right on social issues and from God knows where, fiscally.

What will McCain do?  His Senate record and his 2000 Presidential run suggest a man who will campaign from the center and govern from the center.  His primary season has been pretty much hard right, however.  Until just about now.  So what kind of Republican will take office in 2009?  With Democrats likely to gain seats in both houses, I have to believe it will be a McCain who will govern from the center.  LOL -- maybe from the "hard center".  The problem is Iraq.  It, and all the corollary issues like torture, make it much harder to know what to expect.  So what if McCain governs from the center environmentally, on domestic human rights and so forth?  Is he going to keep our troops in a war they should never have been in in the first place?  And is he likely to start a new war, on a new front?  I honestly don't know.  You can be sure I will feel a sense of relief when Beelzebush is finally exorcised from the Oval Orifice.  And McCain will be a welcome change.  My hope is that Mac will be infinitely more than a slight improvement.  My worry is that that's all he will be.
Logged

cannonia
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 961
United States


Political Matrix
E: 7.42, S: -1.30

P P
View Profile
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2008, 03:44:14 am »
Ignore

Think of it this way.  If voters associated Republicans with smaller government, good government, and shared cultural values in 2006, would they have lost so badly?

Instead, they associated Republicans with big government, corruption, sex scandals, and lying through their teeth.

If the incumbents had cared more about ideology than lining their pockets and amassing power, they would have done better.  In that sense, being more conservative would have helped them tremendously.
Logged
Bluegrass Cruiser 420
Full Member
***
Posts: 104
United States


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2008, 07:48:55 am »
Ignore

Think of it this way.  If voters associated Republicans with smaller government, good government, and shared cultural values in 2006, would they have lost so badly?

Instead, they associated Republicans with big government, corruption, sex scandals, and lying through their teeth.

If the incumbents had cared more about ideology than lining their pockets and amassing power, they would have done better.  In that sense, being more conservative would have helped them tremendously.

Amen, brother!
Logged


DownWithTheLeft
downwithdaleft
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18877
Italy


Political Matrix
E: 9.16, S: -3.13

View Profile
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2008, 07:52:49 am »
Ignore

Well they were stupid enough to blame 06 on not being conservative enough so they probably would.
There is nothing stupid about this being the reason for defeat.  The 1994 victory was because people were promised conservative legislation and conservative ideals, the 2006 defeat was for the most part because the Republicans stopped acting on these ideals.  For the most part, it is a lot of the voters from 1994.  If people want sex scandals, big government, and immoral values they can just vote Democrat.
Logged

Gov. Christopher J. Christie
Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon
htmldon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8879
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.03, S: -2.26

View Profile
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2008, 09:55:35 am »
Ignore

Instead, they associated Republicans with big government, corruption, sex scandals, and lying through their teeth.

And this is what the punditocracy is failing to understand.  With the exception of Foley, all of the men responsible for these sins were self-identified, fire-breathing, far-right "conservatives".

You (not you specifically, but staunch conservatives in general) demanded that they pander to you rather than tell you the truth.  You ignored that they were corrupt as long as they told you that the corruptions of your mind were still real.

We need to demand that our elected officials tell us the truth, whether or not that truth conflicts or coincides with our own beliefs.  The ideological disease of the Club for Growth/Radio Talk Host/punditocracy is the same one that afflicts DailyKos/Liberal Blogosphere/MSNBC... it is a belief that if you keep repeating lies over and over again that somehow they will become reality.

We don't need more Tom Delays.  We need more statesmen and stateswomen.  We are allowing the Democrat Party to become the party of statesmenship by default, because we are absolutely failing to deal with the real problems that face Americans today.  By our own hands, we have trashed conservatism, we have turned a once great ideology held by thinking men of principle, education, and valor into an ideological justification of selfishness, greed,  and moral blindness.

Quite simply, we believed our own press.  Hell, we created our own press to tell us, in fair and balanced fashion, that we were still right.  These are not the activities of statesmen, these are the activities of megalomaniacs.

The only way that we will win, or even deserve to win, is if -- regardless of whether we describe ourselves as conservative, moderate, libertarian,  or other -- we throw off the vestiges of ideological disease and deal with the world as it is, and it's problems as they are; not the world as we imagine it to be, and it's problems merely the fantasies of our opponents.
Logged
HappyWarrior
hannibal
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 7218


Political Matrix
E: -3.87, S: -0.35

View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2008, 10:13:19 am »
Ignore

Well they were stupid enough to blame 06 on not being conservative enough so they probably would.
There is nothing stupid about this being the reason for defeat.  The 1994 victory was because people were promised conservative legislation and conservative ideals, the 2006 defeat was for the most part because the Republicans stopped acting on these ideals.  For the most part, it is a lot of the voters from 1994.  If people want sex scandals, big government, and immoral values they can just vote Democrat.

You must be high.
Logged


"Destiny is not a matter of chance; it is a matter of choice. It is not a thing to be waited for; it is a thing to be achieved."
-William Jennings Bryan
Joe Republic
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 30718
United States


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2008, 10:18:18 am »
Ignore

It would appear that voters much prefer the heterosexual sex scandals provided by the Democrats, as opposed to the Republican alternative...
Logged



Real Americans (and Big Sky Bob) demand to know.


I just slept for 11 hours, so I should need a nap today, but we'll see.
Jay20
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 56
View Profile
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2008, 03:43:35 am »
Ignore

they will call Bush a liberal even tho he was a radical conservative and say how it ruined their party image, just throw him under the bus.
Logged
NDN
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3542
Uganda


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2008, 04:34:23 am »
Ignore

...will the GOP blame their loss on nominating a (by GOP standards) moderate?
We can hope. Tongue
Logged


ABANDON ALL HOPE
NDN
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3542
Uganda


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2008, 04:44:40 am »
Ignore

The only way that we will win, or even deserve to win, is if -- regardless of whether we describe ourselves as conservative, moderate, libertarian,  or other -- we throw off the vestiges of ideological disease and deal with the world as it is, and it's problems as they are; not the world as we imagine it to be, and it's problems merely the fantasies of our opponents.
Pretty much. The main problem with the GOP and much of the modern Right IMO isn't just their solutions to problems. It's that they largely ignore that problems exist in the first place. That and they think their views on a lot of issues (especially taxes and healthcare) are more mainstream or popular than they actually are. Admittedly they were able to frame the debate for a long time but now they've pretty much exhausted their credibility. Unless they adopt a new playbook the Republicans are going to wind up being marginalized outside of the deep South and inter-mountain West for a long time.
Logged


ABANDON ALL HOPE
cannonia
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 961
United States


Political Matrix
E: 7.42, S: -1.30

P P
View Profile
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2008, 05:30:02 am »
Ignore

they will call Bush a liberal even tho he was a radical conservative and say how it ruined their party image, just throw him under the bus.

Bush burned the tattered remnants of the Contract with America and went on a big-government spending spree.  Some of us Republicans actually worry about a McCain administration being a "third Bush term," and we certainly don't mean it in the same way as the left.
Logged
Smash255
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14372


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2008, 09:25:55 pm »
Ignore

Well they were stupid enough to blame 06 on not being conservative enough so they probably would.
There is nothing stupid about this being the reason for defeat.  The 1994 victory was because people were promised conservative legislation and conservative ideals, the 2006 defeat was for the most part because the Republicans stopped acting on these ideals.  For the most part, it is a lot of the voters from 1994.  If people want sex scandals, big government, and immoral values they can just vote Democrat.

So republicans and conservatives came out to the polls in 06 as a similar % as they did in 04 & voted GOP at a similar % as they did in 04, and moderates and Independents vote heavily Democratic.  They keep the base, lose the middle because they weren't conservative enough???  Hmm....
Logged

auburntiger
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1267
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.61, S: 0.65

View Profile
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2008, 01:24:47 pm »
Ignore

Well they were stupid enough to blame 06 on not being conservative enough so they probably would.
There is nothing stupid about this being the reason for defeat.  The 1994 victory was because people were promised conservative legislation and conservative ideals, the 2006 defeat was for the most part because the Republicans stopped acting on these ideals.  For the most part, it is a lot of the voters from 1994.  If people want sex scandals, big government, and immoral values they can just vote Democrat.

So republicans and conservatives came out to the polls in 06 as a similar % as they did in 04 & voted GOP at a similar % as they did in 04, and moderates and Independents vote heavily Democratic.  They keep the base, lose the middle because they weren't conservative enough???  Hmm....

they kept the base and lost the moderate only because everyone else hates Bush, and that happened to drag down many republicans with him. Even I voted for a Democratic governor, senator, and representative that year. When Bush leaves office, he will no longer be the direct bain of people's dissatisfaction.
Logged

Moderate Republican turned Independent.
J. J.
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 32039
United States


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2008, 04:30:15 pm »
Ignore

I frankly thing a re-alignment is coming, but I don't thinks it is here yet.

A McCain win might move GOP to the left a bit.  The country will drift slightly to the left; the religious right, so called, will fade.

An Obama win will probably drag the GOP to the right.  I can see a poor performance by Obama taking the country to the right (think 1980 in combination with 1994). 

This election sets up the re-alignment, like 1976 or 1928.
Logged

J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
MooMooMoo
Angry_Weasel
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12560
United States


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2008, 09:08:05 pm »
Ignore

I frankly thing a re-alignment is coming, but I don't thinks it is here yet.

A McCain win might move GOP to the left a bit.  The country will drift slightly to the left; the religious right, so called, will fade.

An Obama win will probably drag the GOP to the right.  I can see a poor performance by Obama taking the country to the right (think 1980 in combination with 1994). 

This election sets up the re-alignment, like 1976 or 1928.

I would like to think that is the case. The time following this election could mean the marginalization of the right or the final deathblow to the left.
Logged


the result is a sense that we were told to attend a lavish dinner party that was going to be wonderful and by the time we got there, all the lobster and steak had been eaten, a fight had broken out, the police had been called and all that was left was warm beer and chips.
[/quot
Psychic Octopus
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9171
United States


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2008, 06:54:05 pm »
Ignore

It could se him become minority leader of the senate one day maybe
Logged

MR maverick
MR politics
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 586
United States


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2008, 05:18:01 am »
Ignore

The Gop is in serious need of rebuild.

They need to get younger and get rid of the neocons.

Appeal to Blacks , Latinos and others instead of Joe the plumbers and Todd Palins of the world

Bush got 45% of the Latino vote and 12% of the black vote back in 2000.. they were on the right track then.  It somehow got lost in 2004 iam guessing with calling everybody anti American stuff which stems from the far right hopping on the 9/11 wagon. Since it won them victory in 2004 they figured it was the way to go.   

Dismiss my point of view on this if you please, but if the Mexican vote and black vote overwhelm McCain this election that will be the sign that I was right.

You can't win elections losing a vote 99%- 1%
Logged

cannonia
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 961
United States


Political Matrix
E: 7.42, S: -1.30

P P
View Profile
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2008, 06:02:51 am »
Ignore

The Gop is in serious need of rebuild.

They need to get younger and get rid of the neocons.

Appeal to Blacks , Latinos and others instead of Joe the plumbers and Todd Palins of the world

Bush got 45% of the Latino vote and 12% of the black vote back in 2000.. they were on the right track then.  It somehow got lost in 2004 iam guessing with calling everybody anti American stuff which stems from the far right hopping on the 9/11 wagon. Since it won them victory in 2004 they figured it was the way to go.   

Dismiss my point of view on this if you please, but if the Mexican vote and black vote overwhelm McCain this election that will be the sign that I was right.

You can't win elections losing a vote 99%- 1%

So, go whole-hog social conservative and get rid of that pesky fiscal wing of the party?

Huckabee, here we come!
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines