The Federalist League

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

* Memphis, TN *

<A slow tempo version of "Battle Cry of Freedom" plays softly in the background as crowd waits for the rally to begin>

*Ernest walks up to podium draped in red white amd blue bunting.  Behind him. on five flagpoles of equal height, fly the flags of the five regions, with the Southeastern flag in the center.  No Atlasian flag is in sight.*

<Song ends, and there is a pause as Ernest waits for the expectant crowd to quiet somewhat.>

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Southeast.  I speak here today in our glorious regional capital, to speak on a matter of grave importance.  Grave, I tell you, for if something is not done soon, we shall have to gather for a funeral.

<A few nervous chuckles come from the crowd.>

A funeral for our beloved Southeastern region and our sister regions as well.  Ever since our Atlasian government has come into being, The government in Nyman has proceeded one slow but sure step at a time to strip the regions of their responsibilities, their rights, and even their very reason for existance!

<Ernest pauses for sip of water and to gve the crowd time to think on what he has said.>

We no longer have a federal government here in Atlasia.  The regions exist only on the sufferance of the national government.  Our boundaries are changed without even giving any pretense to consulting the will of the people.  I am glad that Texas is now part of our once proud region, but does it really matter?  What will keep the bureaucrats in Nyman from deciding that Texas must be amputated from the Southeastern body politic and served up as a piece of pork to satisfy the political appetite of some beltway bandit?

<Ernest bangs podium with his clenched fist.>

I have come here to announce the formation of the Federalist League.  This Federalist League will act to restore the federal nature of our Atlasian government.  However, it will not be a political party.  We will welcome to our numbers the good people of any party: the United Left and the Libertarian,  the IP and the UAC, Democrat and Republican, to join our glorious criusade for government by the regions.  I shall be travelling to the other regional capitals to make further speeches and hopefully to listen to speeches by those who shall join us in seeing that no region shall be a slave.  Together we shall show the dastard minions of tyranny that we shall fight for our rights forever as we rally round our flags!

<A rousing fast tempo version of  "Battle Cry of Freedom" begins as a the crowd cheers.>

[ilikeverin]

Who said anyone gave approval for Texas must be amputated from the Midwest region

Perhaps the Senate should give the Midwest's rightful land back


(Just kidding )

[PBrunsel]

As a governor of a region I will enter your league. it seems to be fighting for region's rights over a federal beaurocracy, and that is what I have been fighting for since I strated fantasy elections.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Well it is a glorious capital

I'll have to think some on this.  While as a Governor I certainly sympathize with the need to protect local control and local responsibility, I am a patriotic Atlasian and am offended at the lack of display of the colors at your event.  Our soldiers have fought and died for Atlasia and they deserve our constant respect and admiration for their sacrifice.

[PBrunsel]

Well it is a glorious capital

I am a patriotic Atlasian and am offended at the lack of display of the colors at your event.  Our soldiers have fought and died for Atlasia and they deserve our constant respect and admiration for their sacrifice.

I also was somewhat angry about the flag not being shown.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The intent was not to slight the brave members of our armed forces, either past or present.  I felt that the inclusion of all five regional flags would be sufficient to indicate that this is intended to be an all-Atlasian movement and not a movement restricted to any one region or any sort of seperatist movement.  The Southeastern flag had been placed in the center simply because the rally was held in the Southeast.  I had intended to have the flag of the host region in the center of the five regional flags at future events, but if the host of future events wishes to iinclude the Atlasian flag in the display, I certainly have no objection.

[Schmitz in 1972]

I will gladly join the league Ernest. This sounds like a great idea.

[JohnFKennedy]

Out of curiosity, why is it called the Federalist League? Weren't the federalist party in favour of a large central government? Is it supposed to be ironic?

[Niles Caulder]

Out of curiosity, why is it called the Federalist League? Weren't the federalist party in favour of a large central government? Is it supposed to be ironic?

A federalist form of government is what the USA enjoys, a tier-system where govt. responsibilities are split between the Federal level and the State level.  The UK has a unitarian system rather than federalist.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Out of curiosity, why is it called the Federalist League? Weren't the federalist party in favour of a large central government? Is it supposed to be ironic?

Roughly speaking, there are three ways of managing the differences between two levels of government .

• Unitary  The central government is sovereign and its constituient parts have only those powers granted to it by the central government which may choose to change or withdraw those powers at any time.
  
• Confederate  The state governments are sovereign and the central government has only those powers which they grant to it and which they may change or withdraw from the central government at any time.
  
• Federal Both the national and the state governments are sovereign with certain powers and responsibilities that cannot be removed save by the consent of the affected sovereignity.
  
  The historical Federalists were aiming to change the United Sttaes from a confederate system to a federal system while the Federalist League aims to change Atlasia from a unitary system to a federal system.  The only irony that exists in the choice of name derives solely from the difference in the starting conditions.

[Patunia]

I like your league. Especially since I see that the congress is passing numerous bills that infringe upon state (regional) authority. Unfortunately, there is no specific langauage in the constitution that sets the different regions in stone. I propose you push for an amendment that would do just that. The 4th amendment gave the different regions the authority to govern themselves. Now they need that authority within not so fuzzy borders.

Furthermore, if you would be so kind as to read the 2 threads I started on this very subject I would appreciate it. I have petition the Supreme Court to look into regional authority issues, but my petition was denied based on the fact that my status remains one of a minor. Perhaps you will see the wisdom of my posts and maybe submit the petition yourself?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Patunia, I welcome your interest in this important matter and hope you froe up (reach 18 posts) real soon now.

I feel that a suit to the Supreme Court  over the interpretation of the Atlasian fourth amendment will first require a case where the laws of a region and of Atlasia are in conflict which is not currently the case.  However, I am not as hopeful as you are that the Supreme Court will reach the right decision (altho of course it will reach the correct one.)  I  hope to pursue a gradua plan, begin with an amendment to address the problem that the very existence of the regions is in the hands of the national government.

[Patunia]

Patunia, I welcome your interest in this important matter and hope you froe up (reach 18 posts) real soon now.

I feel that a suit to the Supreme Court  over the interpretation of the Atlasian fourth amendment will first require a case where the laws of a region and of Atlasia are in conflict which is not currently the case.  However, I am not as hopeful as you are that the Supreme Court will reach the right decision (altho of course it will reach the correct one.)  I  hope to pursue a gradua plan, begin with an amendment to address the problem that the very existence of the regions is in the hands of the national government.

Read this thread https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?board=13;action=display;threadid=8192

Ultimately, you may be right. Be I am distressed to a certain degree that hardly anyone is pursuing this matter with any kind of zeal.

[Patunia]

BTW, sign me up for The Federalist League. Guess I thought I implied that, but just in case. Let me know what future plans are. If we get a decent membership, then we should schedule meetings to flesh out our future path. Talk to States. Im sure he would be interested.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Well, here's a proposed Constitutional amendment that does what I feel should be the first step in making Atlasia into a federal government. It is possible, but not likely. that the Senate could cause mischief with its power under Section 6 but there needs to be some way to enable a Region that has no voters to be merged with another Region and giving the Senate the power to make proposals seemed the simplest solution.  Comments anyone?

Regional Territory Amemdment
Preamble
Whereas a fundamental characteristic a sovereign government is the territory thereof, this amendment specifies the only manner in which the territory of a Region may be altered under the Constitution of Atlasia.
Section 1
All restrictions on the number of Regions and the territorial characteristics of Regions contained in the Constitution prior to the adoption of this amendment are repealed, save that the Regions as they existed as of said adoption shall continue to exist as Regions whose territory shall be changed only as specified in this amendment.
Section 2
The Regions of Atlasia shall consist of one or more of the several States of the United States  For purposes of this amendment, the District of Columbia shall be considered a State.  Each State shall be part of a single Region.
Section 3
A State may transfer from one Region to another Region only if both Regions and the State agree to said transferral by simultaneous plebescite.
Section 4
Two or more Regions may combine into a single Region only if each Region shall agree to said combination by simultaneous plebescite.  Said plebescites must specify the law to be used in the combined Region.
Section 5
A Region may divide into two or more Regions only if each proposed new Region shall agree to said division by simultaneous plebescite.  Said division shall not take effect unless either each of the proposed new Regions would have more registered voters than the average number of registered voters in  the other existing Regions or the government of Atlasia should give its assent before the start of the general election that follows said plebescites.  New Regions formed by this section shall inherit the laws of the original Region as of the date of division.
Section 6
Proposals for territorial change may be submitted by either the Senate or jointly by the government of each Region affected thereby.
Section 7
The plebescites required under this Amendment shall be held at the next general election that follows a proposal made in accordance with Section 6 of this Amendment.  In the event that no votes are cast in a plebescite, the Region or State so affected shall be deemed to have given its assent.  Otherwise a majority of the votes cast must be in favor of the proposal, with a tied result indicating failure of the proposal.

[Fritz]

Ernest, while I admire your work, you have a knack for making things way too complicated.  Wht is all this necessary?

[??????????]

Ernest has a way of 'complicating the obvious and trivializing the momentous.'

[Patunia]

I think that a simple amendment leaving the regions as they are is much more desirable. Populations are always in flux and that is just a fact of life. But have the ability to change the regions at all only serves to throw people lives into turmoil.

I would rather see a major overhaul of the redestricting code. Let each region be represented seperately without overlap. And to accomodate this, add a House of Representatives. One senator from each region and requisite number of house members from each region based on popualtion. If the regional popualtions were all the same, then most likely only one house member from each.

Im not advocating a larger government, but a more equatable representation of the regions. As it stands now, region means nothing accept as a way for those in power to change borders in order to suit their ambitions.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I'll admit that my penchant for small-r republicanism tends to get me in trouble at times.  I favor governments of laws and not of men, so I like to have things spelled out just so.  Belive it or not, there were some more provisos I didn't include because I wanted to keep things simple.

There are three things a constitutional amendment that does what this one wants to do must do:

• Specify what a region is
  That's what Sections 1 and 2 do.  Without that pair of sections, the 5 regions of 10 states each rule would still apply and a region could only be changed by swapping states.
  
• Specify the sorts of changes in territoryy are legal
  That's what Sections 3, 4, and 5 dom with one section per typr of change.  Section 5 could be simplified, as the extra restrictions therein are design to provide an extra check against having too many regions or regions that are too small..  That only becomes a real concern if national power is ever apportioned on a per Region instead of a per capita basis, so I could see leaving that for later.
  
• Specify how the procedure to be used
  That's what Sections 6 and 7 do.  The what to do if no votes are cast rule is necessary because we have some states with no regstered voters.
  
  
  

[Patunia]

I'll admit that my penchant for small-r republicanism tends to get me in trouble at times.  I favor governments of laws and not of men, so I like to have things spelled out just so.  Belive it or not, there were some more provisos I didn't include because I wanted to keep things simple.

There are three things a constitutional amendment that does what this one wants to do must do:

• Specify what a region is
  That's what Sections 1 and 2 do.  Without that pair of sections, the 5 regions of 10 states each rule would still apply and a region could only be changed by swapping states.
  
• Specify the sorts of changes in territoryy are legal
  That's what Sections 3, 4, and 5 dom with one section per typr of change.  Section 5 could be simplified, as the extra restrictions therein are design to provide an extra check against having too many regions or regions that are too small..  That only becomes a real concern if national power is ever apportioned on a per Region instead of a per capita basis, so I could see leaving that for later.
  
• Specify how the procedure to be used
  That's what Sections 6 and 7 do.  The what to do if no votes are cast rule is necessary because we have some states with no regstered voters.
  
  
  
  

I dont have a problem with how you propose to do this if regional boarders were fluid. But I am of the mind that regional borders should be final. I dont think it serves the people of any given region to move borders.

Also, I would like to hear your views on regional representasion ernst. I think it is seriously lacking considering the current system overlaps regional borders. Kinda takes the representative out of representative government.

[ilikeverin]

What?  How does the current system overlap regions? :S

[Patunia]

What?  How does the current system overlap regions? :S

http://www.uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?board=13;action=display;threadid=5715

[Fritz]

We just went through establishing 10-state regions, thanks to Niles hard work on the subject.  My understanding is those are supposed to be final.  Why amend the constitution with all these rules about how to change regions?  

[ilikeverin]

What?  How does the current system overlap regions? :S

http://www.uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?board=13;action=display;threadid=5715

I see a map of regions and a map of districts...

[Patunia]

What?  How does the current system overlap regions? :S

http://www.uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?board=13;action=display;threadid=5715

I see a map of regions and a map of districts...

And cant you see how some states in one region share districts from states in other regions? Thats the overlap.