Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 28, 2014, 12:48:21 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Please delete your old personal messages.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Discussion
| |-+  History
| | |-+  Alternative History (Moderator: True Federalist)
| | | |-+  More than two terms.
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: More than two terms.  (Read 11165 times)
afleitch
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22049


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -8.17

View Profile
« on: February 15, 2004, 03:10:35 pm »
Ignore

If after Roosevelt, the two term limit wasn't imposed, then who whould have ran again? And would this have changed political history? We know of course that Nixon toyed with the idea, and Bill Clinton has voiced support for an amendment, so Cliton (if he had been elected twice in the first place) would have given it another shot. I doubt Truman would have run, but would Eisenhower went for a third term against say Kennedy? And Reagan, would he have run?
Logged
tweed
Miamiu1027
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 35782
United States


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2004, 03:12:26 pm »
Ignore

Reagan would have run, he didn't have all of his marbles at the end.

Clinton would have and would have won by a whisker-same with eisenhower.
Logged

in a mirror, dimly lit
Gustaf
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 26973


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

View Profile
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2004, 05:48:31 pm »
Ignore

Truman was allowed, since the term limit was stated not to affect him. He didn't really have the necessary popularity and decided against it after doing to badly in the New Hampshire primary.

Logged

This place really has become a cesspool of degenerate whores...

Economic score: +0.9
Social score: -2.61

In MN for fantasy stuff, member of the most recently dissolved centrist party.
NHPolitico
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2304


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2004, 03:22:59 pm »
Ignore

Reagan would have run, he didn't have all of his marbles at the end.

Clinton would have and would have won by a whisker-same with eisenhower.

Reagan seemed perfectly alert in his 1992 Convention speech. I say he'd have run, too.
Logged

"I like to help old ladies across the street. Sometimes they don't want to be helped. It's terrible." -- Barry Seinfeld
Don't tell me we can't change.
NHPolitico
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2304


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2004, 03:30:55 pm »
Ignore

If after Roosevelt, the two term limit wasn't imposed, then who whould have ran again? And would this have changed political history? We know of course that Nixon toyed with the idea, and Bill Clinton has voiced support for an amendment, so Cliton (if he had been elected twice in the first place) would have given it another shot. I doubt Truman would have run, but would Eisenhower went for a third term against say Kennedy? And Reagan, would he have run?

You leave out the biggest blunder of presidential history by cutting it off with FDR (though I understand what you're doing).  TR loved being president. He'd have wanted to do it until he died if given the chance-- and he'd have easily served two full terms in addition to his partial term.  Alas, he announced that he would count the partial as a full term the night he won and regretted it every day thereafter. A very sad story.
Logged

"I like to help old ladies across the street. Sometimes they don't want to be helped. It's terrible." -- Barry Seinfeld
Don't tell me we can't change.
Harry
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 19173
United States


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2004, 03:47:28 pm »
Ignore

Well TR tried for a third one and ended up messing things up even more for his party . . .
Logged

It's always darkest before the dawn.
Gustaf
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 26973


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2004, 03:58:41 pm »
Ignore

Well TR tried for a third one and ended up messing things up even more for his party . . .

Yep, gave away a presidential election to the Dems in an era when GOP dominance was absolute. Grin
Logged

This place really has become a cesspool of degenerate whores...

Economic score: +0.9
Social score: -2.61

In MN for fantasy stuff, member of the most recently dissolved centrist party.
NHPolitico
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2304


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2004, 05:29:36 pm »
Ignore

Well TR tried for a third one and ended up messing things up even more for his party . . .

Not really. He let Taft run in 1908 rather than running himself, which is what he wanted, in his heart, to do. He had to be true to himself and run in 1912, but there wouldn't have been chaos in the party had he just run again in 1908 as he wanted to.
Logged

"I like to help old ladies across the street. Sometimes they don't want to be helped. It's terrible." -- Barry Seinfeld
Don't tell me we can't change.
Gustaf
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 26973


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2004, 05:34:28 pm »
Ignore

Well TR tried for a third one and ended up messing things up even more for his party . . .

Not really. He let Taft run in 1908 rather than running himself, which is what he wanted, in his heart, to do. He had to be true to himself and run in 1912, but there wouldn't have been chaos in the party had he just run again in 1908 as he wanted to.

That's right, but is doesn't make the original statement untrue, does it? He DID trie for a 3rd term and thus lost the GOP the presidency after 4 consecutive wins. Though I agree that it might have been all avoided had he chosen to run in 1908.
Logged

This place really has become a cesspool of degenerate whores...

Economic score: +0.9
Social score: -2.61

In MN for fantasy stuff, member of the most recently dissolved centrist party.
tweed
Miamiu1027
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 35782
United States


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2004, 06:14:17 pm »
Ignore

TR tried to win at the Republican convention in 1912, and when he didn't, he formed the Bull Moose Party.
Logged

in a mirror, dimly lit
Platypus
hughento
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21453
Australia


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2004, 01:13:04 am »
Ignore

IIRC, the law states that they can't have two CONSECUTIVE terms.

Clinton (Bill) '04!
Logged

dunn
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3080


P
View Profile
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2004, 09:28:15 am »
Ignore

Does "elected" stands only for president? if so it can be - say - Kerry/Clinton (Bill) in 04?
Logged

Keep your eyes on the stars, and your feet on the ground - TR
tweed
Miamiu1027
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 35782
United States


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2004, 09:32:10 am »
Ignore

Does "elected" stands only for president? if so it can be - say - Kerry/Clinton (Bill) in 04?
Clinton wouldn't accept even if he could, taking hte VP slot would be a step down in power for him.
Logged

in a mirror, dimly lit
dunn
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3080


P
View Profile
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2004, 09:40:05 am »
Ignore

Hey Lewis, where it's written? It's not in the constitution
Logged

Keep your eyes on the stars, and your feet on the ground - TR
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58775
India


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2004, 09:43:18 am »
Ignore

XII amendment, last sentence.
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
dunn
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3080


P
View Profile
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2004, 09:47:07 am »
Ignore

Thanks, but would't you say that para. is just about election in the house and not general election?
Logged

Keep your eyes on the stars, and your feet on the ground - TR
Demrepdan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1320


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2004, 08:59:09 pm »
Ignore

I thought it said no one can be "ELECTED" to the office of the President more than twice. Therefore....one can run for Vice President....and then IF the President-Elect refuses to serve after the general election....then the Vice President-Elect would become the next President. Remember.....it says no one shall be ELECTED to the OFFICE...of President....PRESIDENT (keywords...it doesn't say Vice...it says Pres)....more than twice. It doesn't say no one can SERVE as President more than twice.

So...conceivably...we could have a Kerry/Clinton ticket......and if Kerry were to be elected...and then state that he does NOT wish to serve as President the day after the election...then on January 20th...2005.....William J. Clinton will be sworn in for his THIRD term as President.

Of course.....if it said no one may SERVE as President more than twice.....then the scenario I just gave you could never happen. But it doesn't say SERVE...it says ELECTED. That's a Key word there folks.
Logged

Moderately-Liberal Progressive Populist Libertarian Democrat.
Harry
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 19173
United States


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2004, 09:08:11 pm »
Ignore

The max is ten years.  So if say Bush died in 2003, Cheyney could come in for two more terms.  But if Bush died in 2002, then Cheyney could only be reelected once.
Like Johnson could run again in 1968 but chose not to.  If Ford had won, though, in 1976, he could NOT have run in 1980.
It's like more than of a term counts as a term.
Logged

It's always darkest before the dawn.
dazzleman
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13821
Political Matrix
E: 1.88, S: 1.59

View Profile
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2004, 09:09:22 pm »
Ignore

I think that Clinton is the only president post-Roosevelt who would have run for a third term in the absence of the 22nd amendment.

Be that as it may, the 22nd amendment has in reality been a godsend to any of the presidents we think of as having the potential for a third term.  There is something to be said for exiting at the right time.

The 22nd amendment did not apply to Truman, but he decided against running again because his popularity by 1952 was so low that he stood little chance of winning.

Eisenhower probably would not have run again in 1960 in any case.  He had had a heart attack and a stroke, and his interest in the job was fading, particularly after the U-2 crisis.  A third term would probably not have worked out well for him, and would have left his reputation diminished.

The same goes for Reagan.  I doubt at his age (77 in 1988) that he would have run for a third term, and it would have been a disaster for him if he had won a third term, for reasons of his health and the downturn in the economy.  He went out on top, rather than staying on the stage too long, and I think he would have done so regardless of the 22nd amendment.

Clinton would have run for a third term without the 22nd amendment, in my opinion, and probably would have narrowly won.  But he would not have performed well in the post-Sept. 11 atmosphere.  His appeal, and people's tolerance for his sleaziness, was dependent upon him keeping the party going.  He's not a man who can lead a nation in a time of war or sacrifice.  So he was better served by leaving office when he did.

I think that in all but the most extreme circumstances, two terms is enough.
Logged
Demrepdan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1320


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2004, 09:46:56 pm »
Ignore

I think the only term limits that we should have in this country....is a little thing called elections.

Putting term limits on individuals......whether they be Governors...or Presidents...or Mayors....or what have you....makes the people look ignorant and STUPID.

It's pretty much like having the government step in and say..."ok ok...you've voted for this guy twice.....lets have someone knew...because this guy has too much power....and you people are too stupid to vote for someone new for a change.....so lets put term limits in place."

I think it should be left up to the will of the people....to decide if two terms is enough.
Logged

Moderately-Liberal Progressive Populist Libertarian Democrat.
Harry
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 19173
United States


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2004, 10:10:43 pm »
Ignore

I think no more than two times in a row is good for president, but it should not be a total limit.  Like Clinton should be able to run again now, after sitting out a term.
Logged

It's always darkest before the dawn.
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58775
India


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2004, 10:42:36 pm »
Ignore

Thanks, but would't you say that para. is just about election in the house and not general election?
No, I wouldn't say. The house cannot elect veeps at all. The senate can only choose between the two people who received the highest total of EVs for VP, so such an interpretation makes not a single bit of sense.
Basically, it seems they just forgot to start a new para for that last sentence.
Remember: Before the XII amendment each elector had two votes that both were for VP and prez, so it was obvious that only persons eligible as Prez were eligible as VP. If that last sentence of the XII weren't there, that would have been accidentally repealed. (Note that these requirements at the time did not include a term limit. They were actually talking about 35 years old, native born or immigrated before 1776, US citizen, that kind of thing)
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
GPORTER
gporter
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 7350
United States


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2008, 10:59:21 am »
Ignore

Eisenhower runs for a third term. He wins the republican nomination unamiously on the first ballot and he keeps Nixon as his running mate.

BUMP


Kennedy is nominated for President and selects LBJ as his running mate.

There are telivised debates. Kennedy slams Ike for the problems during his second term in the debates. There is one vice presidential debate. The vice presidential debate is close but Nixon comes out on top narrowly. There are two presidential debates. Both of which Kennedy does well in.

As the election comes closer, the polls are very close with Kennedy having a slight advantage. However, the polls are very, very close.



Eisenhower/Nixon: 288 Elecotral Votes;50.60% of the popular vote
Kennedy/Johnson: 249 Electoral Votes; 50.20% of the popular vote
Other: 0 Electoral Vote;00.40% of the popular vote




Logged

the birth of modern america & onward timeline(http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=195483.new#new)results of four most previous elections.....
election 1912
Underwood: 267 Cutchens: 264 Lafolette: 0 Debs: 0 266 to win
election 1916
Underwood (i): 224 Curtis: 254 Johnson: 53 266 to win
House Underwood (i): 26 Curtis: 12 Johnson: 10 25 to win
election 1920
Roosevelt: 260 Lowden: 271 McAdoo: 0 266 to win
election 1924
Thomas: 262 Lowden (i): 269 266 to win
Captain Chaos
GZ67
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 509
United States


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2008, 11:51:15 am »
Ignore

Would JFK actually run against an incumbent President seeking a 3rd term? If not, I think Eisenhower would defeat any Democrat who ran in 1960.

Eisenhower then retires in 1964. Kennedy throws his hat into the ring, wins the Democratic nod, and selects Senator Fulbright as his running mate.

Vice President Nixon wins the GOP nod and picks either Barry Goldwater (if he needs to cement support from the conservative wing) or William Scranton (more acceptable alternative than the divorced and re-married Nelson Rockefeller). Henry Cabot Lodge would probably be Secretary of State in an Eisenhower 3rd term and not interested in seeking the Presidency.

Kennedy would capitalize on voter fatigue with 4 more years of a Republican presidency and run on a slogan of getting America moving again. Fulbright ensures Democrats hold most of the South (Kennedy overlooks his opposition to civil rights).
Logged

Albus Dumbledore
Havelock Vetinari
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1942
Congo, The Democratic Republic of the


Political Matrix
E: -0.71, S: -2.17

View Profile
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2008, 08:35:06 pm »
Ignore

Haha oh wow.
Logged

"348. The rest of the party appreciates it if I don't start the game in Cyberpsychosis."
"I will kill 120,000 people" ~ Barack Obama
The United States is not only the world's first suburban nation, but it will also be its last. The world cannot sustain any more economies like ours. - Kenneth T. Jackson
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines