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Author Topic: Bill Clinton says wife is victim of a ‘cover up  (Read 6003 times)
Torie
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« on: May 26, 2008, 01:32:50 pm »
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Ah, from the gift who just keeps on giving. Go Bill!

From CNN

May 26, 2008
Bill Clinton says wife is victim of a ‘cover up

Former President Bill Clinton said that Democrats were more likely to lose in November if his wife Hillary Clinton is not the party’s presidential nominee, and suggested some people were trying to “cover this up” and “push and pressure and bully” superdelegates to make up their minds prematurely.

"I can’t believe it. It is just frantic the way they are trying to push and pressure and bully all these superdelegates to come out,” he said at a South Dakota campaign stop Sunday, in remarks first reported by ABC News. “'Oh, this is so terrible: The people they want her. Oh, this is so terrible: She is winning the general election, and he is not. Oh my goodness, we have to cover this up.'"

The former president added that his wife had not been given the respect she deserved as a legitimate presidential candidate. "She is winning the general election today and he is not, according to all the evidence,” he said. “And I have never seen anything like it. I have never seen a candidate treated so disrespectfully just for running.”

[snip]
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Sbane
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« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2008, 02:51:57 pm »
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Bill Clinton continues to become a joke with every passing day. Does he not care about his legacy or something.
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2008, 03:23:30 pm »
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Damn that vast left-wing conspiracy!  Damn them all to hell!
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Real Americans (and Big Sky Bob) demand to know.


I just slept for 11 hours, so I should need a nap today, but we'll see.
CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2008, 09:23:54 pm »
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Strangely enough, Bubba is correct!

First, lets look as some recent polls:

Polling Organization          McCain v. Clinton          McCain v. Obama

Rasmussen                         45%         47%             45%          45%

Princeton                            44             48                46             46

Second, lets look at the primary results:

Obama          47.24%
Clinton          48.10
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« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2008, 09:41:15 pm »
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Bill and Hillary need to go away for 10 years.
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2008, 09:49:46 pm »
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Strangely enough, Bubba is correct!

First, lets look as some recent polls:

Polling Organization          McCain v. Clinton          McCain v. Obama

Rasmussen                         45%         47%             45%          45%

Princeton                            44             48                46             46

Second, lets look at the primary results:

Obama          47.24%
Clinton          48.10

Only if you use some very creative math, as the Clintons do.

Clinton math

Exclude the caucus states
Include Florida and Michigan results even though Obama was not even on the ballot in Michigan and did not campaign in Florida, obeying the rules.

When Clinton did not need Florida and Michigan early on in the campaign, she was all in favor of supporting the DNC and their decision to exclude Florida and Michigan because they broke the rules.  When she desperately needs them now, she is all in favor of disregarding their rule breaking.

Actual fact

Including the primary states, including the caucus states, and including Florida and Michigan, Obama still wins the popular vote.

The Clintons are taking great liberty and really stretching the truth, in fact, twisting the truth, when they claim they win the popular vote.

There are no depths to which the Clinton's will not stoop in a desperate and fading grab for power.
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2008, 10:27:08 pm »
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Er,

First, I noted that Winfield ignored the polls.

Let me add Gallup to the list     McCain v. Clinton     McCain v. Obama
                                                    44%        49%         47%         45%



Second, it is true the Clinton really goofed in failing to organize effectively in the caucus states.  She should be ashamed of her ineptitude.

Oh, and BTW, the primary results I cited are correct.  You have to ignore the results in a couple of states to get the result Obama supporters want.

Finally, since Clinton got her "second wind," she has been doing very well against Obama.  Part of this is probably due to people getting a better look at Obama.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2008, 11:08:01 pm by CARLHAYDEN »Logged

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« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2008, 03:28:08 am »
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Ever heard of  the "margin of error", CARL?
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2008, 08:37:54 am »
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Ever heard of  the "margin of error", CARL?

Maybe someone can explain the basics of survey research to you some day.

Three surveys, two from quality sources, all agree.

Oh, and Hillary beats McCain in Gallup by five points (well in excess of the MoE) whereas B.O. loses by two points.  That's a spread of seven points.
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« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2008, 08:43:39 am »
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Er,

First, I noted that Winfield ignored the polls.

Let me add Gallup to the list     McCain v. Clinton     McCain v. Obama
                                                    44%        49%         47%         45%



Second, it is true the Clinton really goofed in failing to organize effectively in the caucus states.  She should be ashamed of her ineptitude.

Oh, and BTW, the primary results I cited are correct.  You have to ignore the results in a couple of states to get the result Obama supporters want.

Finally, since Clinton got her "second wind," she has been doing very well against Obama.  Part of this is probably due to people getting a better look at Obama.

You basically ignored everything Winfield told you.
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2008, 08:52:49 am »
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Er,

First, I noted that Winfield ignored the polls.

Let me add Gallup to the list     McCain v. Clinton     McCain v. Obama
                                                    44%        49%         47%         45%



Second, it is true the Clinton really goofed in failing to organize effectively in the caucus states.  She should be ashamed of her ineptitude.

Oh, and BTW, the primary results I cited are correct.  You have to ignore the results in a couple of states to get the result Obama supporters want.

Finally, since Clinton got her "second wind," she has been doing very well against Obama.  Part of this is probably due to people getting a better look at Obama.

You basically ignored everything Winfield told you.

Please try reading carefully.

First, I specifically acknowledged that Clinton goofed in essentially ceding the caucus states to B.O.

Second, yes, I acknowledged that the Obamanics like Winfield and you want to exclude the results of Florida and Michigan. 



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« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2008, 09:17:19 am »
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  Good God!! We have been forced to listen to the Clinton victimization spiel for the last 16 years.  When will it all end?  When will people stop buying into this nonsense?  When will the Clinton's stop bringing out the victim card whenever things do not go the way they want?  Why cant they just go away??

Ill Ind
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Franzl
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« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2008, 09:40:10 am »
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Please try reading carefully.
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« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2008, 09:55:06 am »
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Actually, CARL, you ignored Winfield's very valid point about the legitimacy of the Michigan and Florida contests.

Your primary result between Obama and Clinton - can we see the math behind it?  Acknowledging that Clinton screwed up the caucus states through an ineffective campaign does not justify ignoring their results in the primary 'result.'
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2008, 10:50:00 am »
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Actually, CARL, you ignored Winfield's very valid point about the legitimacy of the Michigan and Florida contests.

Your primary result between Obama and Clinton - can we see the math behind it?  Acknowledging that Clinton screwed up the caucus states through an ineffective campaign does not justify ignoring their results in the primary 'result.'

First, here's the link to the primary results:

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?year=2008&off=0&elect=1&f=0

Second, of course the Florida and Michigan results are "illegitimate" as Clinton won.  Interestingly enough, other states which "jumped the gun" in the slection process (Nevada for example) are considered ok.  Hmm.  I wonder why.  I guess that its "valid" to question Clinton's wins, but not "valid" to question B.O.s.
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2008, 10:54:45 am »
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Obamanics like Winfield

Oh dear.  Please pay closer attention, CARL.

Or should that be 'CARL the Clintonista'?
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« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2008, 10:57:52 am »
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Actually, CARL, you ignored Winfield's very valid point about the legitimacy of the Michigan and Florida contests.

Your primary result between Obama and Clinton - can we see the math behind it?  Acknowledging that Clinton screwed up the caucus states through an ineffective campaign does not justify ignoring their results in the primary 'result.'

First, here's the link to the primary results:

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?year=2008&off=0&elect=1&f=0

Second, of course the Florida and Michigan results are "illegitimate" as Clinton won.  Interestingly enough, other states which "jumped the gun" in the slection process (Nevada for example) are considered ok.  Hmm.  I wonder why.  I guess that its "valid" to question Clinton's wins, but not "valid" to question B.O.s.

There is no point arguing with you.
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2008, 11:02:55 am »
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Actually, CARL, you ignored Winfield's very valid point about the legitimacy of the Michigan and Florida contests.

Your primary result between Obama and Clinton - can we see the math behind it?  Acknowledging that Clinton screwed up the caucus states through an ineffective campaign does not justify ignoring their results in the primary 'result.'

First, here's the link to the primary results:

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?year=2008&off=0&elect=1&f=0

Second, of course the Florida and Michigan results are "illegitimate" as Clinton won.  Interestingly enough, other states which "jumped the gun" in the slection process (Nevada for example) are considered ok.  Hmm.  I wonder why.  I guess that its "valid" to question Clinton's wins, but not "valid" to question B.O.s.

There is no point arguing with you.

Uh, did Nevada jump the gun (I.e. violate the timeline)?  If so, why are those results "valid," and those of Florida and Michigan invalid?
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« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2008, 11:07:27 am »
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Clinton won Nevada, you dolt.

Clinton was quite happy with the restrictions on Michigan and Florida when they didn't affect her nomination.  And of course the Michigan primary was illegitimate - Obama wasn't even on the ballot!
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2008, 11:33:24 am »
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Clinton won Nevada, you dolt.

Clinton was quite happy with the restrictions on Michigan and Florida when they didn't affect her nomination.  And of course the Michigan primary was illegitimate - Obama wasn't even on the ballot!

Perhaps you didn't understand the question, so I'll break it down for you into three questions:

First, did Nevada hold its selection process earlier than provided for by the rules?

Second, are Nevada's delegates allowed to count whereas those of Florida and Michigan are not?

Third, why is it that Nevada (to cite just one example) is allowed to have its delegates count, but not Florida or Michigan?
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« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2008, 11:37:04 am »
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Ask Hillary Clinton - she agreed to the restrictions proposed by the DNC, not me.

And again, the candidates were not allowed to campaign in Florida.  Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan - how many times does that need to be repeated?
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« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2008, 11:41:05 am »
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Clinton is the victim of a cover-up, not the instigator of one?  OMG Richard Mellon Scaiffe is going to have a heart attack and die. Wink
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« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2008, 11:42:39 am »
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Ever heard of  the "margin of error", CARL?

Maybe someone can explain the basics of survey research to you some day.

Three surveys, two from quality sources, all agree.

Oh, and Hillary beats McCain in Gallup by five points (well in excess of the MoE) whereas B.O. loses by two points.  That's a spread of seven points.

Gallup is not a quality source. I agree for the rest. And it's strange to see that clinton does better than Mc Cain with unfav so high.
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« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2008, 11:43:21 am »
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Clinton won Nevada, you dolt.

Clinton was quite happy with the restrictions on Michigan and Florida when they didn't affect her nomination.  And of course the Michigan primary was illegitimate - Obama wasn't even on the ballot!

Perhaps you didn't understand the question, so I'll break it down for you into three questions:

First, did Nevada hold its selection process earlier than provided for by the rules?

Second, are Nevada's delegates allowed to count whereas those of Florida and Michigan are not?

Third, why is it that Nevada (to cite just one example) is allowed to have its delegates count, but not Florida or Michigan?

Regardless of whether you agree with the fact that Nevada was allowed to hold their caucuses before February 5, it was, in fact, part of the rules. The rules might not be fair, you can argue that. But then you should focus on changing the rules before the primaries start.

You can't wait until you are losing, and then decide that you want to protest.
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« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2008, 11:43:45 am »
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Clinton won Nevada, you dolt.

Clinton was quite happy with the restrictions on Michigan and Florida when they didn't affect her nomination.  And of course the Michigan primary was illegitimate - Obama wasn't even on the ballot!

Perhaps you didn't understand the question, so I'll break it down for you into three questions:

First, did Nevada hold its selection process earlier than provided for by the rules?

Second, are Nevada's delegates allowed to count whereas those of Florida and Michigan are not?

Third, why is it that Nevada (to cite just one example) is allowed to have its delegates count, but not Florida or Michigan?
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Nevada didn't violate the rules.  New Hampshire on the other  hand DID violate the rules.  They voted for Clinton as well, however.

While I understand the frustration of Mich and Fla and disagreed with the penalty imposed, I think claiming that Obama's only counting states favorable to him is plainly inaccurate and even intentionally misleading.  You can complain that the DNC did a poor job of choosing how to enforce their rules and who to enforce them against (and I can even agree with you), but to somehow now claim that as a result, we should ignore the rules and the rulings is tantamount to me claiming the the Supreme Court's erroneous ruling in 2000 ought to be ignored and that Al Gore is actually president.
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"The most important thing to remember is, no matter what anybody tells you, it is never, ever unpatriotic or un-American to question anything in a democracy"
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