Iraqis claim Marines are pushing Christianity in Fallujah

[Joe Republic]

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Iraqis claim Marines are pushing Christianity in Fallujah

By Jamal Naji and Leila Fadel | McClatchy Newspapers

FALLUJAH, Iraq — At the western entrance to the Iraqi city of Fallujah Tuesday, Muamar Anad handed his residence badge to the U.S. Marines guarding the city. They checked to be sure that he was a city resident, and when they were done, Anad said, a Marine slipped a coin out of his pocket and put it in his hand.

Out of fear, he accepted it, Anad said. When he was inside the city, the college student said, he looked at one side of the coin. "Where will you spend eternity?" it asked.

He flipped it over, and on the other side it read, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:16."

"They are trying to convert us to Christianity," said Anad, a Sunni Muslim like most residents of this city in Anbar province. At home, he told his story, and his relatives echoed their disapproval: They'd been given the coins, too, he said.

Fallujah, the scene of a bloody U.S. offensive against Sunni insurgents in 2004, has calmed and grown less hostile to American troops since residents turned against al Qaida in Iraq, which had tried to force its brand of Islamist extremism on the population.

Now residents of the city are abuzz that some Americans whom they consider occupiers are also acting as Christian missionaries. Residents said some Marines at the western entrance to their city have been passing out the coins for two days in what they call a "humiliating" attempt to convert them to Christianity.


[cont.]

[Franzl]

crusade!!!!!

[dead0man]

Not the way it was done in the article no.  One shouldn't pimp his/her religion while wearing the uniform of the US military.  Off duty might be a different story.

[John Dibble]

Certainly not behavior that should be allowed for on-duty soldiers (and it isn't, the article confirms that much) but I don't see this as a terrible travesty or anything. As long as nobody is being forced to embrace Christianity it's no big deal even if it's inappropriate.

[Stranger in a strange land]

Certainly not behavior that should be allowed for on-duty soldiers (and it isn't, the article confirms that much) but I don't see this as a terrible travesty or anything. As long as nobody is being forced to embrace Christianity it's no big deal even if it's inappropriate.

the way it's depicted in the article is extremely damaging to the mission: Iraqis will resent the US presence in the region even more if they feel American troops are trying to push Christinity on them.

[John Dibble]

Certainly not behavior that should be allowed for on-duty soldiers (and it isn't, the article confirms that much) but I don't see this as a terrible travesty or anything. As long as nobody is being forced to embrace Christianity it's no big deal even if it's inappropriate.

the way it's depicted in the article is extremely damaging to the mission: Iraqis will resent the US presence in the region even more if they feel American troops are trying to push Christinity on them.

I don't disagree with that, I just think the Iraqis in the article are making a bigger deal of this than they rationally should be. But it's a religious issue, so I guess rationality is a bit too much to ask.

[Alcon]

Certainly not behavior that should be allowed for on-duty soldiers (and it isn't, the article confirms that much) but I don't see this as a terrible travesty or anything. As long as nobody is being forced to embrace Christianity it's no big deal even if it's inappropriate.

the way it's depicted in the article is extremely damaging to the mission: Iraqis will resent the US presence in the region even more if they feel American troops are trying to push Christinity on them.

I don't disagree with that, I just think the Iraqis in the article are making a bigger deal of this than they rationally should be. But it's a religious issue, so I guess rationality is a bit too much to ask.

Their culture, for better or for worse, doesn't especially shine on Christian evangelization.  It's hypocritical, but so are most arch-religious societies.  If we are going to practice cultural sensitivity, not doing this would be a good place to start.

[Verily]

Certainly not behavior that should be allowed for on-duty soldiers (and it isn't, the article confirms that much) but I don't see this as a terrible travesty or anything. As long as nobody is being forced to embrace Christianity it's no big deal even if it's inappropriate.

the way it's depicted in the article is extremely damaging to the mission: Iraqis will resent the US presence in the region even more if they feel American troops are trying to push Christinity on them.

I don't disagree with that, I just think the Iraqis in the article are making a bigger deal of this than they rationally should be. But it's a religious issue, so I guess rationality is a bit too much to ask.

Well, yes. But you can only force rational decisions on those under your control; in this case, the soldiers. No proselytizing, on or off-duty.

[John Dibble]

Certainly not behavior that should be allowed for on-duty soldiers (and it isn't, the article confirms that much) but I don't see this as a terrible travesty or anything. As long as nobody is being forced to embrace Christianity it's no big deal even if it's inappropriate.

the way it's depicted in the article is extremely damaging to the mission: Iraqis will resent the US presence in the region even more if they feel American troops are trying to push Christinity on them.

I don't disagree with that, I just think the Iraqis in the article are making a bigger deal of this than they rationally should be. But it's a religious issue, so I guess rationality is a bit too much to ask.

Well, yes. But you can only force rational decisions on those under your control; in this case, the soldiers. No proselytizing, on or off-duty.

Again, I have no disagreement with that. I'm just making some commentary - I think it's kind of dumb that they are making a fuss over this.

[JSojourner]

Given what has taken place at the Air Force Academy over the last seven years, I am not surprised to see extremist Evangelicalism taking hold in other branches of service.  I'm sorry that it's happening, but hardly shocked.

What's the old adage?  "First come the missionaries.  Then come the guns."  Bush just switched the order.

[Flying Dog]

Good!

[exopolitician]

Uh...no.

[Хahar 🤔]

Good!

[King]

No. Not at this current point in time, but if Iraq is going to be a democracy then we'll have to discuss allowing other religions to practice eventually.

[War on Want]

Never mind they were on duty. They should only be allowed to evangelize, when they are out of uniform. Still some Muslims seem to be paranoid about people promoting religions, if their's is so much better why not let it have competition? We let them promote their religion here.

[Flying Dog]

Good!

Sorry, forgot to add my sarcasm disclaimer.

[Хahar 🤔]

Good!

Sorry, forgot to add my sarcasm disclaimer.

Yeah, that needed a smiley.

[JSojourner]

No. Not at this current point in time, but if Iraq is going to be a democracy then we'll have to discuss allowing other religions to practice eventually.

Under Saddam Hussein, evil as he was, minority religions enjoyed far more freedom than they currently do. 

But even so, there is a massive difference between permitting indigenous Iraqi Christians to witness to their countrymen about Jesus...and allowing armed occupiers from the USA to proselytize. It reeks of injustice and hypocrisy.

[dead0man]

Given what has taken place at the Air Force Academy over the last seven years, I am not surprised to see extremist Evangelicalism taking hold in other branches of service.  I'm sorry that it's happening, but hardly shocked.

You seem to be implying that the USAF is full of Fundies.  I've met a lot of AF dudes (I've worked as one or with them since 1994) and I haven't seen it.  There are a lot more drunks than there are Fundies.

[JSojourner]

Given what has taken place at the Air Force Academy over the last seven years, I am not surprised to see extremist Evangelicalism taking hold in other branches of service.  I'm sorry that it's happening, but hardly shocked.

You seem to be implying that the USAF is full of Fundies.  I've met a lot of AF dudes (I've worked as one or with them since 1994) and I haven't seen it.  There are a lot more drunks than there are Fundies.

Not the USAF, necessarily.  The USAFA.  The Academy.  I'll see if I can dig up some of the news reports.  It was getting pretty awful there for anyone who was not a fundie Christian.  Some of the complaints came from Christian chaplains who were not sufficiently fundamentalist.  I suspect a lot of this has to do with the proximity of the Academy to several massive McChurches and Focus on the Family.

[dead0man]

Yeah, I know about that stuff.  I just didn't want it to look like the USAF or the military in general was full of Fundies.  It isn't.

[opebo]

Yeah, I know about that stuff.  I just didn't want it to look like the USAF or the military in general was full of Fundies.  It isn't.

How would you know?  Who else would be crazy enough to go into the military?

[dead0man]

Yeah, I know about that stuff.  I just didn't want it to look like the USAF or the military in general was full of Fundies.  It isn't.

How would you know?  Who else would be crazy enough to go into the military?

That's right, you'd know better than I.  Your preconceived notions trump my anecdotal evidence.

[JSojourner]

Yeah, I know about that stuff.  I just didn't want it to look like the USAF or the military in general was full of Fundies.  It isn't.

I'm sure that's true, Dead. 

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Not by officers on duty.