Iraqis claim Marines are pushing Christianity in Fallujah

[JSojourner]

Given what has taken place at the Air Force Academy over the last seven years, I am not surprised to see extremist Evangelicalism taking hold in other branches of service.  I'm sorry that it's happening, but hardly shocked.

What's the old adage?  "First come the missionaries.  Then come the guns."  Bush just switched the order.

[JSojourner]

No. Not at this current point in time, but if Iraq is going to be a democracy then we'll have to discuss allowing other religions to practice eventually.

Under Saddam Hussein, evil as he was, minority religions enjoyed far more freedom than they currently do. 

But even so, there is a massive difference between permitting indigenous Iraqi Christians to witness to their countrymen about Jesus...and allowing armed occupiers from the USA to proselytize. It reeks of injustice and hypocrisy.

[JSojourner]

Given what has taken place at the Air Force Academy over the last seven years, I am not surprised to see extremist Evangelicalism taking hold in other branches of service.  I'm sorry that it's happening, but hardly shocked.

You seem to be implying that the USAF is full of Fundies.  I've met a lot of AF dudes (I've worked as one or with them since 1994) and I haven't seen it.  There are a lot more drunks than there are Fundies.

Not the USAF, necessarily.  The USAFA.  The Academy.  I'll see if I can dig up some of the news reports.  It was getting pretty awful there for anyone who was not a fundie Christian.  Some of the complaints came from Christian chaplains who were not sufficiently fundamentalist.  I suspect a lot of this has to do with the proximity of the Academy to several massive McChurches and Focus on the Family.

[JSojourner]

Yeah, I know about that stuff.  I just didn't want it to look like the USAF or the military in general was full of Fundies.  It isn't.

I'm sure that's true, Dead. 

[JSojourner]

Oh, the outrage!  That free men may spread the good news in savage nations.  Cannot these brave soldiers be likened to the Mormon, who happily goes from house to house preaching the virtues of his holy book? 

When was the last time you were visited by a Mormon Missionary who was armed?

The outrage ought to be reserved not for the Christian soldier, but for the bleeding heart liberal who stands arm in arm with the Mohammedan.  For them to reject one of the founding principles of this nation - that men ought to have freedom of religion - not freedom from religion - is almost treachery.

It was a founding principle of THIS nation that we should have freedom of religion.  It was and is not a founding principle that we should have the freedom to convert other nations at gunpoint. I think the Belgians tried that in the Congo.  How'd that work out?

If the Mohammedans will reject Christ, peace in the Middle East is but a dream, a chasing after the wind.

It would help if the Christians stopped rejecting Christ, first.  Pretty hard to expect Muslims to embrace a Savior whose teaching Christians reject so openly.

Yes, peace can come through Middle East only through the embrace of a religion of peace.  Now it is time for the people of Iraq to make a choice.  For Christ, or against him.  There is no middle ground.  But those who search their hearts and prayerfully seek salvation will come to the truth, and the truth shall set them free.  Indeed, most of the violence in that region can be attributed to the ugly doctrines of Mohammed, which teaches not peace, but war, not forgiveness, but retaliation, not salvation, but eternal damnation.

I'm not too far from agreement on a couple of points.  After all, I believe trusting Jesus as one's savior and being willing to obey his teachings in one's life does yield the fruit of peace and brotherhood.  I've never opposed missionary work.  In fact, the Mrs. and I still support Wycliffe Bible Translators in their outreach to the Islamic world.  We agree that people need Jesus.  But your argument breaks down on a number of levels.

One, people have the right to say "no thank you" and be left alone.  If you think not, then I'll be sure to tell the Mormon missionary who visits you NOT to take no for an answer.

Two, we're not talking about missionaries.  We're talking about soldiers.  Soldiers have a job to do.  If they are doing the work of missionaries, then they are not doing the work of soldiers.

Three, while there's no denying that far too many Muslims take their sacred scriptures literally...leading them to bloodlust and hatred...it seems you have been so focused on the mote in their eye that you callously ignore the beam in your own.  Christians have historically done the same thing and continue to around the world.  Whether it's The Decider's "crusade" for Christ or The Lord's Resistance Army...whatever...remember that "judgment begins with the house of God".

"But sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence." - 1 Peter 3:15

Amen, brother. The Great Commission is indisputable. But the Great Commandment is no less a mandate.  You want to convert non-Christians?  You have my full support.  But treat them as you would wish to be treated.  In other words, hear their story first.  Listen to their questions respectfully.  Meet their physical needs if possible.  Be their friend, unconditionally.  Build a relationship.  And then tell them about Jesus. And if they say, "no thanks", love them anyway -- as Jesus would.  I presume you would prefer that a Muslim who wanted to convert you would offer you similar respect.

[JSojourner]

Oh, the outrage!  That free men may spread the good news in savage nations.  Cannot these brave soldiers be likened to the Mormon, who happily goes from house to house preaching the virtues of his holy book?  The outrage ought to be reserved not for the Christian soldier, but for the bleeding heart liberal who stands arm in arm with the Mohammedan.  For them to reject one of the founding principles of this nation - that men ought to have freedom of religion - not freedom from religion - is almost treachery.

If the Mohammedans will reject Christ, peace in the Middle East is but a dream, a chasing after the wind.

Yes, peace can come through Middle East only through the embrace of a religion of peace.  Now it is time for the people of Iraq to make a choice.  For Christ, or against him.

If you're going to rant and make yourself look foolish, at least show your Lord some respect and capitalize "him" when referenceing Him.

He could show his Lord more respect by embracing the ethic of love and brotherhood his Lord taught.

Didn't Gandhi say it so well?  "I like your Christ.  Your Christians?  Not so much."

[JSojourner]

Agreed.  Christianity would be great if it wasn't full of Christians.

I have often prayed, "Jesus, if it weren't for you...I would be SOOO outta here."  Of course, as a Christian, I have to be ruthlessly honest and admit to being -- much too often -- part of the problem.  But I do think that's a good place to start for any person -- theist or non, Christian or other -- recognizing their own propensity for asshattery and trying to do better.