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| | |-+  Dems (and others on the left), do you prefer to "battle" Libertarians or Fundies
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Poll
Question: Who would you rather have as your political enemies?
Fundies   -10 (41.7%)
Libertarians   -11 (45.8%)
Neo-Cons   -3 (12.5%)
Other (explain)   -0 (0%)
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Total Voters: 24

Author Topic: Dems (and others on the left), do you prefer to "battle" Libertarians or Fundies  (Read 5465 times)
Хahar
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« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2008, 01:09:08 am »
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My friend's dad is a Libertarian, I really enjoy debating him; I don't think I've ever met a real diehard Fundie.

In Virginia?  You gotta be kidding!  You must live near D.C.

Right across the river; he's in Arlington, which is very much a Northeastern city.
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« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2008, 10:58:48 am »
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Funnily enough none of those three ideologies have any credibility(? Perhaps the wrong word - followers maybe?) outside the United States.

Libertarianism is just a silly form of US nationalism, however it is silly enough to be attacked while maintaing some sort of credibility which the fundies don't have.

Funny, given that we oppose nationalism. Also, Gully, how can you claim to be an anarchist when you defend the state at almost every opportunity?
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Endorsements: Sen: Broun (GA), Bevin (KY), Wolf (KS), McDaniel (MS), Brannon (NC), Bright (SC)
House: Amash (MI), Massie (KY), Duncan (TN), McClintock (CA), Sanford (SC), Jones (NC), Huelskamp (KS), Loudermilk (GA), Emmer (MN), Richardson (ME), Raths (CA), DeMaio (CA), Dietzel (LA), Lonegan (NJ), Didier (WA), Mooney (WV), Mathis (AL)
Gov: LePage (ME), Coleman (AR), Melvin (AZ), Donnelly (CA)
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Chuck Hagel 08
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« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2008, 11:03:15 am »
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libertarians, easily.

most that ive encountered totally lack any compassion.  most fail to understand that there are people who have life experiences that put them behind.

No, you just ignore libertarian arguments and replace them with the straw men libertarian arguments you make in your head. Contrary to what you think, I do not know one libertarian who wants to kill poor people.
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Endorsements: Sen: Broun (GA), Bevin (KY), Wolf (KS), McDaniel (MS), Brannon (NC), Bright (SC)
House: Amash (MI), Massie (KY), Duncan (TN), McClintock (CA), Sanford (SC), Jones (NC), Huelskamp (KS), Loudermilk (GA), Emmer (MN), Richardson (ME), Raths (CA), DeMaio (CA), Dietzel (LA), Lonegan (NJ), Didier (WA), Mooney (WV), Mathis (AL)
Gov: LePage (ME), Coleman (AR), Melvin (AZ), Donnelly (CA)
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Chuck Hagel 08
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« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2008, 11:03:55 am »
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Fundies definitely.  Libertarianism should be annihilated.

Good to see that you believe in equality before the law. Tongue
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Endorsements: Sen: Broun (GA), Bevin (KY), Wolf (KS), McDaniel (MS), Brannon (NC), Bright (SC)
House: Amash (MI), Massie (KY), Duncan (TN), McClintock (CA), Sanford (SC), Jones (NC), Huelskamp (KS), Loudermilk (GA), Emmer (MN), Richardson (ME), Raths (CA), DeMaio (CA), Dietzel (LA), Lonegan (NJ), Didier (WA), Mooney (WV), Mathis (AL)
Gov: LePage (ME), Coleman (AR), Melvin (AZ), Donnelly (CA)
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« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2008, 11:09:46 am »
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If I could choose the two major parties in the United States, Democrats and _______, then I'd pick Democrats and Libertarians. We'd essentially have a consensus on social issues and civil liberties issues (or, at the very least, the argument would shift towards my views on the issues considerably), and elections would be about bread and butter economic issues.
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« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2008, 03:18:09 pm »
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I think "Fundamentalist" is a misleading term.  You're not just talking about Hagee or Robertson or whomever when you think of the religious faction in the GOP- they're are a lot of other "churchy" social conservatives as well.  I think "Social Conservative" or at least "Evangelical" (though of course, their ranks include some conservative Catholics and maybe Jews as well) is a better term.  Social Conservatives also have a whole range within- I'm sure people would be less opposed to them if they were led by Rick Warren or Billy Graham types instead of Dobson, Robertson, Falwell types.
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Social score: +3.83

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« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2008, 03:28:25 pm »
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Libertarians I would much prefer to battle. Even though Fundies piss me off, they have some compassion and love in them, it is just directed at the wrong areas.
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« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2008, 01:38:19 am »
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I voted neo-Cons. Some evangelicals can hold respectable political views and I generally agree with at least small-L libertarians.
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Хahar
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« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2008, 01:48:28 am »
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Funnily enough none of those three ideologies have any credibility(? Perhaps the wrong word - followers maybe?) outside the United States.

Libertarianism is just a silly form of US nationalism, however it is silly enough to be attacked while maintaing some sort of credibility which the fundies don't have.

Funny, given that we oppose nationalism. Also, Gully, how can you claim to be an anarchist when you defend the state at almost every opportunity?

When did he claim that?
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« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2008, 03:17:10 am »
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Libertarians I've found to be intelligent, educated and pleasant people. Terribly misguided as to how the world works, but worthy foes. Plus they're pretty on the down low right now, and I like to root for the underdog.

Fundies on the other hand just come off as hateful, bigoted hypocrites. And they're stupid.

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« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2008, 08:42:34 am »
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Funnily enough none of those three ideologies have any credibility(? Perhaps the wrong word - followers maybe?) outside the United States.

Libertarianism is just a silly form of US nationalism, however it is silly enough to be attacked while maintaing some sort of credibility which the fundies don't have.

Funny, given that we oppose nationalism. Also, Gully, how can you claim to be an anarchist when you defend the state at almost every opportunity?

Most libertarians tend to invoke the "founding fathers" and the "Constitution" as an arguement and believe that the US has been corrupted in recent times by "Big government" and often by association "Socialists". How is that not nationalism? Especially when considering that rugged individualism and hatred of central authority have always been "American" traits and that libertarianism has very little following outside the US.

Also I never claimed I was an Anarchist. Rather I am sympathetic towards certain branches of Anarchism. However, I don't think I have ever defended the state, at least not for the purposes of defending the state.
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« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2008, 05:57:13 pm »
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fundies at least are doing what they believe is morally right and trying to live a lifestyle that is consistent with that (even though I believe that they are often wrong)

True in some cases, though there are many fundies which exhibit behavior hypocritical to their views (i.e. some have sex/adultery scandals, and Evangelicals have a higher divorce rate than the national average).

As for the thread question, libertarians can be allies on some issues, but seem to focus on the other issues (economic and guns--the one social issue where conservatives want less government). Fundies probably frustrate me more, but libertarian views on some issues are even more extreme.
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« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2008, 10:38:29 pm »
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Neo-cons. I hate them so much.

*beats with stick* Tongue
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« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2008, 10:05:53 pm »
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Kill the libertarians, kill them all!

And by "kill" I mean "regulate".  Because to them, that is somehow the same thing.
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« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2008, 10:58:22 am »
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Kill the socialists, kill them all!

And by "kill" I mean "make work".  Because to them, that is somehow the same thing.
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« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2008, 02:52:28 pm »
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Fundies are the Internal Enemy. Libertarians aren't bad even if they take a good idea and go too far with it.
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« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2008, 03:50:12 pm »
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As a rampant homosexualist, who wants to remain one in public and private life then I have to ally with libertarians.
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« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2008, 04:57:41 pm »
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As a rampant homosexualist, who wants to remain one in public and private life then I have to ally with libertarians.
The Fundies aren't going to be able to "convert" anyone.  And if they harm a gay, they're not really Christian, therefore they aren't really a Fundie.
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« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2008, 05:06:34 pm »
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The old "no true Scotsman" argument.  Nice!  Don't see that one much anymore.
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Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
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« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2008, 05:54:50 pm »
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As a rampant homosexualist, who wants to remain one in public and private life then I have to ally with libertarians.
The Fundies aren't going to be able to "convert" anyone.  And if they harm a gay, they're not really Christian, therefore they aren't really a Fundie.


The fundies want to rewrite the science textbooks to denounce evolution, gravity etc. They are far more dangerous and intrusive than libertarians who aren't really dangerous at all. They don't give a damn what you do...
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« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2008, 06:05:13 pm »
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But we're so selfish*, that has to out weigh people trying to shove God into the Constitution.



*I'm not saying we are.  Well, everybody is to some degree or another.  Instead of reading these words, you could be feeding the poor.  Selfish prick.
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Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
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« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2008, 07:49:44 pm »
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Fundies aren't going to win their battles.  Libertarians might.
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« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2008, 07:51:59 pm »
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Fundies aren't going to win their battles.  Libertarians might.
Explain US politics since the late 1970s if fundies don't win,
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« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2008, 07:57:17 pm »
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Fundies aren't going to win their battles.  Libertarians might.
Explain US politics since the late 1970s if fundies don't win,
Abortion is now legal everywhere, sex education entered our schools, we stopped having school prayer, evolution is taught as fact just about everywhere, gays can marry in 2 states and have civil unions in several more.
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« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2008, 07:59:50 pm »
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Why do you defend fundies?
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"348. The rest of the party appreciates it if I don't start the game in Cyberpsychosis."
"I will kill 120,000 people" ~ Barack Obama
The United States is not only the world's first suburban nation, but it will also be its last. The world cannot sustain any more economies like ours. - Kenneth T. Jackson
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