Gay Marraige will be legal in 50 years

[dazzleman]

It's funny how things have turned.  Thirty years ago, many heterosexuals who could get married declined to, because they said it was just a piece of paper.  Parents were outraged by their kids living with lovers and not getting married.

Also at that time, we seriously undermined marriage by liberalizing divorce laws.  It has been said, with some truth, that marriage is the one case in which the government is on the side of the person who wants to break a contract, particularly if the person breaking the contract is a woman.

So marriage has been undermined, and become a risky proposition for some people.  Now gays are demanding the right to get married.  But the issue with marriage today goes beyond whether it's a man and a woman, or two men or two women.  While marriage was originally created for the purpose of raising kids, it is now thought of as an instrument of personal fulfillment.

When enough gays get married, and one partner runs off with somebody else, while demanding and getting all sorts of compensation from the partner being ditched (which happens all the time with heterosexual marriage), gays may wish they just kept living together.

Is he saying people shouldn't be allowed to divorce?

No, I think people should be allowed to divorce.  But I do think the divorce laws are in need of an overhaul.

Today's divorce laws have been influenced by feminist thinking, which says that if a man leaves his wife, he's no good and should be taken to the cleaners.  But a woman who leaves her husband should be applauded for this liberating act, and rewarded with most of her husband's assets, as well as total control over their children.  There's an obvious double standard that is undermining the institution of marriage.

Marriage should be recognized as a contract, and all contracts can be broken under certain circumstances.  But the government should not unquestioning get behind the party that seeks to break the contract, with or without good reason.

[dunn]

Black caucus resists comparison of gay 'marriage' to civil rights


By Brian DeBose
THE WASHINGTON TIMES



    Congressional black Democrats said comparisons shouldn't be made between the struggle by homosexuals to legalize same-sex "marriage" and the civil rights movement of the 1960s.
    Members of the Congressional Black Caucus said they are on shaky ground with their constituents after the presumptive Democratic nominee Sen. John Kerry compared the two issues during a town hall meeting in Jackson, Miss., last week.
    Mr. Kerry was asked during the forum if it was fair for homosexual-rights activists to use prominent figures of the civil rights movement in their effort to legalize same-sex "marriages." The Massachusetts senator said he saw a correlation between the issues, which didn't fare too well in the heavily black deep South.
    Caucus members said the comparison is wrong.
    "The first time I heard the comparison was Sunday," said Rep. Bennie Thompson, Mississippi Democrat, who attended the town hall meeting. "And my approach to [homosexual rights] is, it is a separate issue."
    Caucus chairman Rep. Elijah E. Cummings said the issue is sure to resurface as Mr. Kerry campaigns throughout black communities, since blacks are not as socially liberal when it comes to same-sex "marriage."
    "With African-Americans, you do have a conservative religious community toward [homosexual 'marriage']," the Maryland Democrat said.
    There have been several incidents of homosexual-rights activists and city mayors invoking the names of Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King and equating the 1960s movement to the current struggle by homosexuals to win "marriage" rights.
    But black politicians on Capitol Hill said they do not think that is right.
    "The civil rights movement was more of a movement for the equal rights of all Americans: education, voting rights, jobs. Whereas gay rights in terms of gay marriage is a movement for a special group of Americans," said Rep. Artur Davis, Alabama Democrat. "So I would not compare civil rights with gay rights."
    Mr. Thompson said same-sex "marriage" could in some small way affect whom blacks decide to support in November, "if they feel that strongly about it." But, he said, ultimately he did not think it was enough of a hot-button issue to trump "more pressing" issues for black America in the election, such as the economy, jobs, health care and education.
    Mr. Kerry said Republicans are using the proposed constitutional amendment to ban same-sex "marriage" as a "wedge issue" to divide America. Mr. Thompson agreed.
    But Republican lawmakers have said Mr. Bush was forced to act after the newly elected mayor of San Francisco, Gavin Newsom, a Democrat, began issuing "marriage" licenses to homosexual couples in violation of California state law, and when Jason West, the mayor of New Paltz, N.Y., and a Green Party member, also began "marrying" same-sex couples.
    More than 4,100 same-sex "weddings" have been performed in San Francisco in the past two months and hundreds more in New Paltz.
    And if it is made a wedge issue, there does not appear to be a lot of wiggle room between Democrats and Republicans. In fact, some black Democrats are considering the amendment.
    "I have not made a decision on the constitutional amendment. Although I don't see a need for one, when I see mayors announcing that they will violate the law, it raises the point and puts the country and the Congress in a difficult position," Mr. Davis said.
    A handful of black pastors in Boston have voiced their disapproval of the same-sex rights and civil rights link this week. And the Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, founder and president of Los Angeles-based Brotherhood Organization of a New Destiny, called on black ministers across the country to oppose same-sex "marriage" and to support the proposed federal marriage amendment.
    Both Mr. Kerry and Mr. Bush say they are against homosexual "marriage." Mr. Kerry said he support civil unions, a sort-of marriage by contracts and wills rather than one with ministers, a license and full state approval. Mr. Bush has been somewhat cagey on the civil unions issue, but has thrown his support behind a constitutional amendment defining marriage between a man and a woman.
    But polls show that the majority of Americans are against legalizing "marriage" between homosexuals.
    A CBS poll conducted Feb. 24 through 27 showed that 62 percent of Americans oppose homosexual "marriage" with 30 percent saying they are in favor and 8 percent undecided. The same poll showed that 59 percent of Americans favored the constitutional amendment with 35 percent opposing it and 6 percent undecided. The poll had a 3 percent margin of error.
    A recent national Gallup poll showed that 40 percent of blacks were accepting of homosexuality.
   

[Brambila]

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CTguy,

Should we have "equal rights" and allow mentally retarded adults to fly planes? What about 40-year-old men marrying 15-year-old boys? What about pedophilia? Polygamy? Incest? Rape? Come on... it's not equal rights we're discussing. Homosexuality is unnatural and immoral.  

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Brambilla, what gives you the right to declare what is "unnatural" and "immoral" for your fellow citizens?

[Brambila]

Morality is universal, not relative as many people believe. There is only one moral truth, and many religions follow it- Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Sikhism, Ba'haism, and so on and so fourth.

But why is homosexuality specifically wrong? Because it is a mental disorder that happens during the childhood. If you'de like, I can provide my sources, such as the fact that 44% of homosexual men and 22% of homosexual women were molested as children*, in a study of 2600 homosexuals, 30% of them had 500-1000+ partners in a lifetime**, 75% of homosexuals look for treatment for depression***, Homosexuals are six times as likely to commit suicide than heterosexuals ****, and homosexuals live an average of 20 years younger than heterosexuals*****.

* Archives of Sexual Behavior
** Journal of Sex Research
*** Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology
**** Archives of General Psychiatry
***** International Journal of Epidemiology

Yes, homosexuality is unnatural and a disorder.

[CTguy]

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CTguy,

Should we have "equal rights" and allow mentally retarded adults to fly planes? What about 40-year-old men marrying 15-year-old boys? What about pedophilia? Polygamy? Incest? Rape? Come on... it's not equal rights we're discussing. Homosexuality is unnatural and immoral.  

The same idiotic arguments were made when they wanted to ban interracial marriage.  That it was unnatural and immoral.  Should we also ban that, and abortion, and no fault-divorce, sex before marriage.    

[CTguy]

Morality is universal, not relative as many people believe. There is only one moral truth, and many religions follow it- Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Sikhism, Ba'haism, and so on and so fourth.

But why is homosexuality specifically wrong? Because it is a mental disorder that happens during the childhood. If you'de like, I can provide my sources, such as the fact that 44% of homosexual men and 22% of homosexual women were molested as children*, in a study of 2600 homosexuals, 30% of them had 500-1000+ partners in a lifetime**, 75% of homosexuals look for treatment for depression***, Homosexuals are six times as likely to commit suicide than heterosexuals ****, and homosexuals live an average of 20 years younger than heterosexuals*****.

* Archives of Sexual Behavior
** Journal of Sex Research
*** Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology
**** Archives of General Psychiatry
***** International Journal of Epidemiology

Yes, homosexuality is unnatural and a disorder.

Your ideas are so far out of the mainstream, what are you 80 years old?  The AMA has said homosexuality is not a mental disorder.  Your arguments are completely fallacious.  People don't contract mental disorders because of experiences they have like that.  If homosexuals do suffer from depression more than the general population, which I could believe is true, I doubt it is because they are immoral but rather because they have to deal with biggots like you who pry into their personal lives.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

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Oh I totally agree... I just don't believe that either you or myself were crowned with the ability to judge others based on our own personal beliefs about what the universal morality are.

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Uh.. you mean during puberty... kinda like heterosexuality?

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Well yeah, since there isn't marriage, there is no way to solidify or encourage manogomy.  Were there no social constraints, heterosexuals would have just as many partners.

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Because of people like you, yes.

Morality is universal, not relative as many people believe. There is only one moral truth, and many religions follow it- Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Sikhism, Ba'haism, and so on and so fourth.

But why is homosexuality specifically wrong? Because it is a mental disorder that happens during the childhood. If you'de like, I can provide my sources, such as the fact that 44% of homosexual men and 22% of homosexual women were molested as children*, in a study of 2600 homosexuals, 30% of them had 500-1000+ partners in a lifetime**, 75% of homosexuals look for treatment for depression***, Homosexuals are six times as likely to commit suicide than heterosexuals ****, and homosexuals live an average of 20 years younger than heterosexuals*****.

* Archives of Sexual Behavior
** Journal of Sex Research
*** Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology
**** Archives of General Psychiatry
***** International Journal of Epidemiology

Yes, homosexuality is unnatural and a disorder.

[CTguy]

Well I think one thing is for sure, with people like that guy in the Republican party, Bush can kiss the gay vote goodbye.  Which could hurt him considering there is probably a big gay voting population in Florida and California.

[Gustaf]

Well I think one thing is for sure, with people like that guy in the Republican party, Bush can kiss the gay vote goodbye.  Which could hurt him considering there is probably a big gay voting population in Florida and California.

The anti-gay vote is bigger, unforunately.

Htmldon,

you make good points.

Brambilla,

Those statistics might or might not be true, they're certainly not universally true, that is they don't apply to all gays, very far from infact. Which kind of ruins your whole mental disorder argument.

[Brambila]

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Okay, I give you sources from Psychologists, Psychiatrists, and medical factbooks, and you are telling me that my ideas are out of the mainstream. You have provided no counter evidence, and criticize me. Nice logical fallacy.

The AMA and APA are both liberal organizations, so it's no suprise that they believe homosexuality is "natural" and not disordered.

And no, I'm not 80 years old. Not even close.

[CTguy]

Noting the name of something you read is not near naming a source.  We don't know where those studies are coming from.  You brush off what is considered the mainstream group of psychologists as liberals yet you don't provide who conducted the studies you list.  

If you really believed what you said then you wouldn't care if gays could marry since you obviously believe they are too unstable to get to the point of marriage anyways.  

Since you are basing your arguments on religion, are you going to state your belief that anyone who gets divorced, marries interracially or has an abortion is immoral too?  Since that's about 80-90% of the population.  Or are you just going to use gays as a scapegoat for the ills of society while ignoring all the other things religion used to rally against but no longer can because the beliefs are too out of the mainstream (not that yours are anywhere near the mainstream).  

I do believe slave-owners used the bible to justify their practice.

[migrendel]

So, Brambilla, what psychological credentials do you possess? I think they would be handy if you intend to call someone disordered. You say that 30% of homosexuals have had 500 sexual partners. A little envious that they've had 500 more than you?

In addition, I would be interested in knowing why you consider it immoral. Better yet, why do you believe that whatever bastard child of evangelical hatred this view of immorality is should be imposed upon the public at large? If you think these people so repugnant, draw your shades and sit in a corner listening to white noise. In the real world, people learn to deal with others that are different than themselves and hold their comments about their putative immorality to themselves. But that's a little bit much to expect. After all, on top of being a psychologist, you have the years of experience in the study of ethics to make that decision for everyone else. Stay in your cave, Brambilla. I will no longer call natural disasters acts of God, because you wouldn't let Him take over for you. We wish to be in the sunlight.

[Brambila]

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Nobody's crowned to judge anyone, but the facts remain. Morality is defined by nature. Are there homosexuals in nature? Does it damage the evolutionary process? Is it helpful to evolution? Are there mental disorders that go with homosexuality? No, yes, no, and yes. Homosexuality is thus unnatural.

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No, childhood. The third adolescence is simply when the sexuality comes out more. The childhood is where it happens. Notice that the overwealming majority of homosexuals are feminine. Ever wonder why?

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Evidence?

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Evidence?

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Umm, the gay vote is like 3% of the population. Also, many homosexuals actually acknowledge that their homosexuality is wrong and seek help. Ever heard of Courage? David Morrison?

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Most of these statistics were done by LIBERAL homosexual organizations/studies, with RANDOM homosexuals involved in the study.

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So becuase the mainstream accepts it means it's correct? Wow... no wonder liberals never get anyewhere! I listed at the end of the post who conducted the studies.

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I want to help homosexuals, my friend! Homosexuals are dying because of organizations such as the APA and people who encourage them like you. Encouraging homosexuals to have sex is like encouraging a child to play with knives or matches. Something will eventually go wrong.

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Firstly, I'm not basing my arguments on religion AT ALL.

Secondly, though I do believe abortion is immoral and murder, I don't know where any of the other two and abortion come into this debate. Interracial marraige isn't disordered- it's completely normal. It's between a man and a woman. People have done this since the beginning of time and have NO MENTAL ILLNESSES. Homosexuality, however, was not common and is a comparatively recent disorder, and homosexuals have mental problems in their life, with 44% of men and 22% of women having been abused as children.

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Historical trivialization; logical fallacy; silly.

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Logical fallacy. I don't have any psychological credentials- I don't claim to have any. I have family members and good friends in Psychology. But that doesn't mean my argument is null and void. Do you have any psychological credentials to prove that homosexuality is not a disorder? I think not.

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This is simply a load of personal attacks with no support. I'm here to have a real debate, not a bunch of insults.

Homosexuality is immoral because of nature. Morality is based on natural law- Does homosexuality help the evolutionary process? Is homosexuality found in other species? Are there mental disorders that come with homosexuality? The answers? No, No, and yes. Further, there is no evidence that homosexuality comes from birth. It was ONE study done by ONE person criticized by DOZENS of ACCREDITED organizations, and it was accepted as fact. It's not fact, it's far from it.

Why do you assume I'm an evangelical?

[Gustaf]

Ehh...homosexuality is found in other species. And the point on evolution is interesting...do mentally disabled further evolution? No. Neither do those who are generally weak. Why don't we kill them all at birth and preserve a strong Aryan race...ahem...I mean....

And PLEASE tell me how homosexuality damage the evolutionary process?

[CTguy]

The APA encouraging homosexuals to have sex is why they are dying young?

Nice try!  Do you have any kind of education at all?

It's the religious right that is causing people to be unhealthy.  In a recent study that has been allover the news it has been shown that students who are taught abstinence rather than preventative sex are more likely to contract an STD (gay or straight).  

50% of today's youth (gay or straight) will contract an STD by the time they turn 25.  Over 90% will have sex before they get married.

The Christian right's lessons on morality have been a complete failure and have only made people less safe and less prepared to stop themselves from contracting a disease.  

I think the only justice for someone like you is for you to have a child who is gay or lesbian and then you can tell him/her how immoral and mentally deranged he/she is and how much you dissaprove of them.  

[Gustaf]

Like Dick Cheney....

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

I think it is quite clear that heterosexuals outside the usual social constraints have multiple partners and engage in just as many sexual liaisons as their homosexual counterparts.  Ever watched Girls gone wild?

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And the religious right vote is around 14% of the population... so they are both very much in the minority of the country.  And again, if so much of the world was persecuting you, wouldn't you want to seek out whatever might help you to become more "normal"?  Many early Christians faltered and denied their belief because they were persecuted and did not want to be labeled abnormal.

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Nobody's crowned to judge anyone, but the facts remain. Morality is defined by nature. Are there homosexuals in nature? Does it damage the evolutionary process? Is it helpful to evolution? Are there mental disorders that go with homosexuality? No, yes, no, and yes. Homosexuality is thus unnatural.

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No, childhood. The third adolescence is simply when the sexuality comes out more. The childhood is where it happens. Notice that the overwealming majority of homosexuals are feminine. Ever wonder why?

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Evidence?

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Evidence?

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Umm, the gay vote is like 3% of the population. Also, many homosexuals actually acknowledge that their homosexuality is wrong and seek help. Ever heard of Courage? David Morrison?

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Most of these statistics were done by LIBERAL homosexual organizations/studies, with RANDOM homosexuals involved in the study.

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So becuase the mainstream accepts it means it's correct? Wow... no wonder liberals never get anyewhere! I listed at the end of the post who conducted the studies.

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I want to help homosexuals, my friend! Homosexuals are dying because of organizations such as the APA and people who encourage them like you. Encouraging homosexuals to have sex is like encouraging a child to play with knives or matches. Something will eventually go wrong.

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Firstly, I'm not basing my arguments on religion AT ALL.

Secondly, though I do believe abortion is immoral and murder, I don't know where any of the other two and abortion come into this debate. Interracial marraige isn't disordered- it's completely normal. It's between a man and a woman. People have done this since the beginning of time and have NO MENTAL ILLNESSES. Homosexuality, however, was not common and is a comparatively recent disorder, and homosexuals have mental problems in their life, with 44% of men and 22% of women having been abused as children.

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Historical trivialization; logical fallacy; silly.

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Logical fallacy. I don't have any psychological credentials- I don't claim to have any. I have family members and good friends in Psychology. But that doesn't mean my argument is null and void. Do you have any psychological credentials to prove that homosexuality is not a disorder? I think not.

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This is simply a load of personal attacks with no support. I'm here to have a real debate, not a bunch of insults.

Homosexuality is immoral because of nature. Morality is based on natural law- Does homosexuality help the evolutionary process? Is homosexuality found in other species? Are there mental disorders that come with homosexuality? The answers? No, No, and yes. Further, there is no evidence that homosexuality comes from birth. It was ONE study done by ONE person criticized by DOZENS of ACCREDITED organizations, and it was accepted as fact. It's not fact, it's far from it.

Why do you assume I'm an evangelical?

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

Actually Cheney is very supportive of his daughter and she is on the payroll of the Bush/Cheney '04 campaign

Like Dick Cheney....

[Gustaf]

Actually Cheney is very supportive of his daughter and she is on the payroll of the Bush/Cheney '04 campaign

Like Dick Cheney....

Has he talked to the RR and Bush about that? The campaign activist hang-outs must be lots of fun...

To Brambilla: roughly 10% of people are considered to be homosexuals.

[CTguy]

I think homosexuals trying to become straight is comparable to black people during the early days of the civil rights movement who tried to bleach their skin white and get their hair done to look white.  Biggots within the majority cause these phenomenons, not an innate knowledge among minority groups that because they are different they are somehow evil or immoral.

[migrendel]

Let me address this common nonsense on several fronts.

Firstly, I am credentialed in human behavior studies. In addition to having a degree in a social science specializing in the study of human behavior, including sexual behavior, I have a minor degree in psychology. While I'll admit that I'm no Carl Jung, I at least have some training in the area, as opposed to my illustrious detractor, with his "friends and relatives in the psychological community."

Secondly, I am still amazed that you were willing to embarrass yourself by claiming natural law as the foundation of morality. St. Thomas Aquinas is rotting in his grave, and with the history of philosophy since the Enlightenment, so has natural law. I also find it funny that what we do is called unnatural. We have holes. We have things to put in the holes. We may not have a child at the end of it, but neither would that be the fruit of sex with a post-menopausal woman.

However, I will concede that we do not know the cause of homosexuality. Perhaps it is environmental. Perhaps, pursuant to Freudian theory, it is caused by the dynamic of the relationship between mother and child. Perhaps it is genetic. But regardless of whatever the reason may be, it cannot be considered a mental illness because it doesn't represent an impairment of judgment, not to the APA, AMA, APHA, or any other organization, but I suppose this isn't valid because these organizations, whose members come from all political walks of life, and believe me, wealthy doctors do tend to vote Republican, are "liberal". When it comes right down to it, all it is is a difference between certain kinds of people, and not a major difference unless people like you make it one.

My advice to you would be to approach this question with an open mind. Look at all the evidence, don't just scower for anecdotal evidence to support your claim. Perhaps try some homosexual sex out. You might like it. Just give it more consideration.

[© tweed]

Perhaps try some homosexual sex out. You might like it. Just give it more consideration.

No thanks

[migrendel]

In addition, your claims are biologically unsound. Homosexuality is found throughout the natural world. Off  the top of my head, I know of homosexuality occuring in penguins, sea gulls, and manatees. This would strongly suggest that this is natural, found throughout living things, and not just some perversion limited to humans.

I also don't see the point of your evolutionary arguments. Homosexual sex doesn't propagate new people, but since when it is good to base humanity on reproduction? I think it's good that people aren't just casually reproducing anymore and trying to enter everyone else's gene pool. We all know that rampant overpopulation leads to poverty, famine, and disease. While Darwinism has scientific merit, it is indeed dangerous to place reproduction as the be all and end all. Parenthood is something that should be carefully considered, not just done ad infinitum.

[Brambila]

NOTE: sorry for the delayed response. I was studying and responding to your posts on and off.

PART 1)

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A) There is absolutely no such thing as a naturally homosexual animal. Many animals practice homosexual sex, but this does not make them homosexual. Augustine had homosexual sex, but he wasn't homosexual. It has to do with being active or passive.

Homosexuality is damaging to the evolutionary process because it encourages using sex solely for fun instead of reproductive. However, many people masturbate, have premarital "Safe" sex, et cetera, and obviously we shouldn't outlaw these practices. I don't think sodomy should be illegal- but I do believe that homosexual marriage is going beyond the limits.

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Please, enough of your peurile insults. It makes your argument look weak.

You're shifting the argument. Did I ever say I'm Christian? Your changing the argument... whether or not Christianity is threatening the youth  is debatable. Though I'm highly skeptical of anything that Columbia University or the National Institutes of Health studies, the difference between those who used condoms and made pledges and those who used condoms and didn't pledge is only different by about 20% for males and 10% for girls- that  really isn't very different, seeing how few STD are prevented by condoms. Further, the study also said that the pledging did succeed in delaying intercourse until adulthood. Finally, the study didn't show how much more likely pledged teens were to get STDS.

Finally, in Christianity, Islam and Orthodox Judaism using condoms is a sin. So if pledged/Christian teens choose to have sex, it's not that they wern't "paying attention" in class, it's that it's a sin to use condoms. Christians look at it as a good thing that these teens don't use condoms.

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It hasn't been a failure- it's becuse of this culture that so many teenagers are having sex in their youth- these problems were very rare prior to 1960. It's only a recent phenomina that the Judeo-Christian-Islamic beliefs have had some failures. Basically, what this culture does is shove sexuality in everyone's face and tell them that there's only one way to prevent disaster, and if somebody comes up with a morally accepted one, liberals destroy it. I feel sorry for the Christians in America. They have it tough.

So, how does all this tie into homosexual sex? The fact that 40% of all AIDS victims are homosexual is pretty sad (Center for Disease Control).

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When I was younger, my sister was diagnosed with dyslexia. Do you think it was just for my parents to tell my sister that she was dyslexic? Of course. Because my parents told her she was dyslexic, she was able to get through school better.

If somebody was a pedophiler, do you think it would be just for me to tell them that they have a mental disorder? Of course.

If you had a son or daughter who was sexually attracted to you, would it be just for you to tell him or her that she had a mental problem? It's quite obvious, don't you think?

If somebody had cancer, would it be just for a doctor to diagnose them?

Understand?

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Yes, but the thing is homosexuals have a higher rate of promiscuity than non-married heterosexuals.

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Once again, a logical fallacy and a historical trivialization. Don't compare Christianity to Homosexuality- they are incomparable. Homosexuality can be cured- Christianity is a belief. Homosexuality is a disorder. Christianity is a religion. Quite different.

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That's an unfounded statistic drawn out by liberals. The National Health and Social Life Survey , a survey done by HOMOSEXUALS and supporters, found that 2.8% of men and 1.4% of women were homosexual.

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This means nothing to me. I don't think you understand the direct influence of psychologists in my life- I've always had psychologists in my life becuase my father is a psychologist, he holds a Psy.D from CSPP Berkeley, and has specialized in helping homosexuals. Believe me, your "human behavior studies" credential is nothing compared to this.

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Um, this does not only come from Thomas Aquinas. Plato/Socrates and various other Greek philosophers and doctors taught this, Charles Darwin, and various others. According to your logic, if it were acceptable to have sexual intercourse with children, that would mean it were right. If you believe this, you're a very sick minded person.