Gay Marraige will be legal in 50 years

[CTguy]

I keep hearing people say that this issue should be decided in the courts.  I just want to remind you guys that it was the courts that struck down interracial marriage less than 40 years ago, not the people.  Public opinion was twice as strong against that than against gay marriage now.  Sometimes the courts are good tools of social change.  The courts are in place to protect the minority, because legislators often dont because lets face it, the minority is a minority vote.  

But anyways, I agree with some other posters that this is a generational issue.  I'm 21 myself and I strongly support gay marriage.  I think gays should be given the right to marry very strongly, I even wrote my congressman and both senators expressing my viewpoint on this issue.  I think it would be a terrible thing if they amended the constitution in the manner they want.

I also think that gay marriage will be legal within 10-15 years and not 50.

[CTguy]

what planet do you live on where favoring equal rights is radical?

[CTguy]

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CTguy,

Should we have "equal rights" and allow mentally retarded adults to fly planes? What about 40-year-old men marrying 15-year-old boys? What about pedophilia? Polygamy? Incest? Rape? Come on... it's not equal rights we're discussing. Homosexuality is unnatural and immoral.  

The same idiotic arguments were made when they wanted to ban interracial marriage.  That it was unnatural and immoral.  Should we also ban that, and abortion, and no fault-divorce, sex before marriage.    

[CTguy]

Morality is universal, not relative as many people believe. There is only one moral truth, and many religions follow it- Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Sikhism, Ba'haism, and so on and so fourth.

But why is homosexuality specifically wrong? Because it is a mental disorder that happens during the childhood. If you'de like, I can provide my sources, such as the fact that 44% of homosexual men and 22% of homosexual women were molested as children*, in a study of 2600 homosexuals, 30% of them had 500-1000+ partners in a lifetime**, 75% of homosexuals look for treatment for depression***, Homosexuals are six times as likely to commit suicide than heterosexuals ****, and homosexuals live an average of 20 years younger than heterosexuals*****.

* Archives of Sexual Behavior
** Journal of Sex Research
*** Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology
**** Archives of General Psychiatry
***** International Journal of Epidemiology

Yes, homosexuality is unnatural and a disorder.

Your ideas are so far out of the mainstream, what are you 80 years old?  The AMA has said homosexuality is not a mental disorder.  Your arguments are completely fallacious.  People don't contract mental disorders because of experiences they have like that.  If homosexuals do suffer from depression more than the general population, which I could believe is true, I doubt it is because they are immoral but rather because they have to deal with biggots like you who pry into their personal lives.

[CTguy]

Well I think one thing is for sure, with people like that guy in the Republican party, Bush can kiss the gay vote goodbye.  Which could hurt him considering there is probably a big gay voting population in Florida and California.

[CTguy]

Noting the name of something you read is not near naming a source.  We don't know where those studies are coming from.  You brush off what is considered the mainstream group of psychologists as liberals yet you don't provide who conducted the studies you list.  

If you really believed what you said then you wouldn't care if gays could marry since you obviously believe they are too unstable to get to the point of marriage anyways.  

Since you are basing your arguments on religion, are you going to state your belief that anyone who gets divorced, marries interracially or has an abortion is immoral too?  Since that's about 80-90% of the population.  Or are you just going to use gays as a scapegoat for the ills of society while ignoring all the other things religion used to rally against but no longer can because the beliefs are too out of the mainstream (not that yours are anywhere near the mainstream).  

I do believe slave-owners used the bible to justify their practice.

[CTguy]

The APA encouraging homosexuals to have sex is why they are dying young?

Nice try!  Do you have any kind of education at all?

It's the religious right that is causing people to be unhealthy.  In a recent study that has been allover the news it has been shown that students who are taught abstinence rather than preventative sex are more likely to contract an STD (gay or straight).  

50% of today's youth (gay or straight) will contract an STD by the time they turn 25.  Over 90% will have sex before they get married.

The Christian right's lessons on morality have been a complete failure and have only made people less safe and less prepared to stop themselves from contracting a disease.  

I think the only justice for someone like you is for you to have a child who is gay or lesbian and then you can tell him/her how immoral and mentally deranged he/she is and how much you dissaprove of them.  

[CTguy]

I think homosexuals trying to become straight is comparable to black people during the early days of the civil rights movement who tried to bleach their skin white and get their hair done to look white.  Biggots within the majority cause these phenomenons, not an innate knowledge among minority groups that because they are different they are somehow evil or immoral.

[CTguy]

Now I can see where you get your biggotry from.  There are just so many idiotic statements I could respond to I don't think I would be able to get to them all.

First of all you brought religion into this, not me...  I believe religion has no place in political discourse.

Second, you're twisting my comment about having a homosexual child around and making it sound like any homosexual child must be attracted to their parent is pretty sick.  You don't see straight children attracted to their parents of the opposite sex.  And no, if I have a homosexual child I will not tell them they have a mental disorder because I don't believe there is anything wrong with homosexuality.  

I don't think it is at all responsible for someone like you, who probably has little or no education in psychology to be throwing around accusations about an entire class of people based on the fact that your father studied it in Berkeley.  Who cares?  One of my roommates at Yale was a psychology major but I don't purport to have any real knowledge of the subject.

The fact is that you can throw around labels about groups like the APA.  But that is as pathetic as religious leaders who call evolutionists, liberals who haven't found Jesus.  The point is, that the thinking of the APA is the mainstream, not the thinking of your Dad who obviously raised you to hate and label other people.  

That's all I am going to say to you since it is a waste of time even trying to talk to someone like you.


But to WMS, you say that gay marriage shouldn't be forced through the courts.  But what about interracial marriage...  that came through the courts not through the legislature or public which was 90% against it just 40 years ago.  It's easy to tell people to wait to get acceptance but I think if it was you who would want to marry interracially then 40 years is a long time to wait.

[CTguy]

Homosexuality is harmful to others. STDs, for instance. Homosexuality also causes depression and other mental disorders.

Further, pedophilia doesn't have to be harmful to the child. What if the child wants to be molested? That's happened before! There was a case a few years ago in Florida where that happened.

Immigration from Mexico is harmful to others...  for instance Americans who lose their jobs to Mexicans willing to work for less.  Since about half of them are here illegally, it is harder for law enforcement to track them.  Mexicans also commit crimes at a greater rate than the general population.  

Should we ban Mexicans from living here and deport the ones that do live here now?  Since as a group they seem to be highly detremental to American culture.

[CTguy]

The relevancy is that you are talking about discriminating against an entire group of people based on the fact that you say a large percentage of them have certain problems (mental problems according to your studies, that are contradicted by other studies by credible organizations which you call liberal), so I am taking that concept and applying it to another group.  Since 50% of Mexican Americans are here illegally and are therefore likely to commit crimes perhaps my town should make an ordinance that it will not allow Mexicans in it out of fear they would commit a crime since it is already proven that they have a tendency to do so just as homosexuals tend to "have mental disorders."  

Many religious leaders have also claimed for decades that "mixing of the races" is against God's will...  so that adds credibility to the idea that there should be an ordinance banning Mexicans from my town.  So tell me, by your religious and moral philosophy, what is wrong with banning Mexicans from living in my town?  

[CTguy]

You are ridiculous in the fact that because you say you've spoken to a few psychologists or read a few studies that you know all homosexuals have mental disorders or that they can change.  

Then when someone points to an organization that disagrees with you, you brand them as liberals...  So in other words, only people who agree with you know what they are talking about and anyone else is just a liberal.

And don't go throwing around the race card...  You still have not given an adequate reason why my town shouldn't ban Mexicans from it by your philosophy.  You say that since homosexuals have so many problems there must be something wrong with them...  Well what about Mexicans...  they have lower education levels, are more likely to commit violent and petty crimes, 50% of them are here illegally, they are less upwardly mobile, so something must be wrong to them according to your logic.  And since something must be wrong with them, I think my town should be able to ban them from living here much like you think Tennessee should be able to ban gays.  And again, lots of religious leaders would agree with me, since they have been saying for years that integration is a bad thing and God intended different races to live on different continents.

[CTguy]

His posts have been extremely offensive to many different groups and then as soon as someone talks about a group he belongs to he gets offended and plays the race card.  I cant say I am suprised though.  He still hasn't given me a good argument.  It's interesting too that he is so insensitive to all the other groups that he berates, considering in a lot of areas racial prejudice towards Mexicans is much more rampant than homophobia or anti-feminist intolerance.

[CTguy]

No because I don't believe homosexuals can change the fact that they are homosexual.  We have said what the APA says and you label them liberals because they disagree with you.

The fact that you are calling people racists because they don't buy into your idiotic philosophy just goes to show that your argument has no credibility.  

The fact is that you have used religion and psychology to justify your homophobia.  Yet I have used arguments made by groups of psychologists and preachers and you have no argument against them.

The fact is that 30 years ago most religious leaders opposed integration... some still do.  It is a reasonable comparison.  When you settle down and stop calling people racists you might realize that.  I believe you can "cure" yourself from being hispanic by pulling a Michael Jackson as much as homosexuals can "cure" themselves by finding Jesus and becoming straight.  In other words, it ain't going to happen so just live with them as I live with them and you.

[CTguy]

None of any of our posts were even remotely racist.  It's funny how you spout off homophobic posts day after day and then as soon as someone says something you don't like about Mexicans you label posts racist.  What goes around comes around.

[CTguy]

By the way, here is another poll on gay marriage that is broken down by age group Brambilla.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/mar04/213490.asp

Clearly after providing 4 polls on the subject, it's obvious that for your age-group you are far far outside of the mainstream.  

Of course, I fully expect you to claim a journalistic or polling liberal bias as you do to any research that runs contrary to your opinion.  Or better yet just refute it in an emotional spat by saying I am a New England liberal or a racist, I mean after all I'm white and from Connecticut.

[CTguy]

All of the polls I have shown, though woven into local stories are NATIONAL POLLS.  It is indisputable that nationally people aged 18-30 support gay marriage.  Even if it was done in Wisconsin, which it wasn't, that is a swing state that is similar to the national electorate as a whole.  The fact is the only place you could take a poll where people agree with your idiocy on gay people is in the most redneck of areas like Rhea county...  and even then you would have to only use a sample pool of people with IQ's under 70.

[CTguy]

The other poll was clearly nationwide and for some reason I cant load the wisconsin paper properly however I do remember it not being a Wisconsin poll.  Anyways, I see you have clearly ignored all of the posts having to do with banning Mexicans from my town.  I wonder why...  because your arguments don't hold up.  

And are you saying you believe most people 18-30 think that being gay is a mental disorder and that gay marriage shouldn't be legal?  Just say it if that's what you think.  So we can have that on the record instead of all these little snippets about this poll and that.