Gay Marraige will be legal in 50 years

[Gustaf]

Does seem likely, the tendency in Europe is the same as well. However this does not mean that younger people are liberal in all areas, when it comes to taking responsibility for one's actions, believing in God and having a positive view towards the family, the new generation in Sweden is actaully the most conservative in a long time.

Which i view as an encouragnig sign...

[Gustaf]

The poll I saw done by Washington Post and ABC shows that 41% of people believe that gay marraige should be legal, and 55% feelt hat it should not be legal.  But there is an encouraging sign in this poll.

This poll shows that 18-29 year olds favor gay marraige legalization, and 42% oppose.  But for those 65 and older, only 21% favor gay marraige and 75% oppose.

What this all means: the next generation is a generation whose majority is not a bunch of family values idiots.  In 50 years, when the family values idiots die out, say hello to gay marraige.

What should happen is that the state should get out of deciding what is and what is not "holy" matrimony. I wouldn't trust people in DC or even the state legislature to decide even the most meaningless decision like which color M&M I should eat first, much less whether anything I do or engage in is holy. Civil Unions for all. People can go to the church to get married and go to city hall to be united.

Pretty much sums up my view on it. It's the system they have in Germany, I learned that after visiting a German weddings, or rather 2 weddings, due to the distinction between legal marriage and religious marriage.

[Gustaf]

I just saw a poll that was done in Sweden, showing that 60% were in favour of gay marriage, with 30% against.

I heard of another, Europe-wide, poll that showed the Netherlands, Denmark and Sweden as the most positive towards gay marriage, with 70% in favour in Sweden. But that was an EU-poll, so I wouldn't put too much stock in it.

[Gustaf]

It's funny how things have turned.  Thirty years ago, many heterosexuals who could get married declined to, because they said it was just a piece of paper.  Parents were outraged by their kids living with lovers and not getting married.

Also at that time, we seriously undermined marriage by liberalizing divorce laws.  It has been said, with some truth, that marriage is the one case in which the government is on the side of the person who wants to break a contract, particularly if the person breaking the contract is a woman.

So marriage has been undermined, and become a risky proposition for some people.  Now gays are demanding the right to get married.  But the issue with marriage today goes beyond whether it's a man and a woman, or two men or two women.  While marriage was originally created for the purpose of raising kids, it is now thought of as an instrument of personal fulfillment.

When enough gays get married, and one partner runs off with somebody else, while demanding and getting all sorts of compensation from the partner being ditched (which happens all the time with heterosexual marriage), gays may wish they just kept living together.

Lol...that does sound a bit bitter Dazzleman. Maybe the gays will restore faith in marriages, since they won't take it for granted!

[Gustaf]

Well I think one thing is for sure, with people like that guy in the Republican party, Bush can kiss the gay vote goodbye.  Which could hurt him considering there is probably a big gay voting population in Florida and California.

The anti-gay vote is bigger, unforunately.

Htmldon,

you make good points.

Brambilla,

Those statistics might or might not be true, they're certainly not universally true, that is they don't apply to all gays, very far from infact. Which kind of ruins your whole mental disorder argument.

[Gustaf]

Ehh...homosexuality is found in other species. And the point on evolution is interesting...do mentally disabled further evolution? No. Neither do those who are generally weak. Why don't we kill them all at birth and preserve a strong Aryan race...ahem...I mean....

And PLEASE tell me how homosexuality damage the evolutionary process?

[Gustaf]

Like Dick Cheney....

[Gustaf]

Actually Cheney is very supportive of his daughter and she is on the payroll of the Bush/Cheney '04 campaign

Like Dick Cheney....

Has he talked to the RR and Bush about that? The campaign activist hang-outs must be lots of fun...

To Brambilla: roughly 10% of people are considered to be homosexuals.

[Gustaf]

All of the polls I have shown, though woven into local stories are NATIONAL POLLS.  It is indisputable that nationally people aged 18-30 support gay marriage.  Even if it was done in Wisconsin, which it wasn't, that is a swing state that is similar to the national electorate as a whole.  The fact is the only place you could take a poll where people agree with your idiocy on gay people is in the most redneck of areas like Rhea county...  and even then you would have to only use a sample pool of people with IQ's under 70.

The link between IQ and political judgement is actually pretty weak, imo.

[Gustaf]

Just thought you might like to get this poll from New Mexico about this. I'll let Vorlon or Gustav or Al or someone like that tell me how valid it is.

In the Sunday, March 21, 2004 Albuquerque Journal
Done by local statewide polling (and redistricting) firm Research & Polling, Inc. Sample of 404 New Mexico adults interviewed by telephone March 10-15. Margin of error: plus or minus 5 percentage points. So make of it what you will...

"Would you favor or oppose a law in New Mexico that would allow a person to marry a partner of the same sex?" 61% OPPOSE, 29% FAVOR, 5% DEPENDS or MIXED FEELINGS, 5% DON'T KNOW or WON'T SAY.

"Would you favor or oppose a state law that would allow civil unions among same-sex couples?" 48% OPPOSE, 43% FAVOR, 5% DEPENDS or MIXED FEELINGS, 4% DON'T KNOW or WON'T SAY.

"Would you favor or oppose an amendment to the U.S. Constitution that prohibited same-sex marriages in every state?" 51% OPPOSE, 42% FAVOR, 4% DON'T KNOW or WON'T SAY, 3% DEPENDS or MIXED FEELINGS.

And, in the Monday, March 22, 2004 Albuquerque Journal, a companion poll, done by Journal reporters who asked 93 of the 112 New Mexico LAWMAKERS (ergo, the State Representatives and State Senators) the same questions (OK, the civil question question IS different) that Research & Polling asked in their poll above. In this case the low sample number is, well, not really an issue, now is it?

"A civil union allows same-sex couples to obtain all of the rights, responsibilities and benefits available through marriage. Would you support or oppose a state law that would allow civil unions among same-sex couples?" 48% OPPOSE/45 Legislators, 32% SUPPORT/30 Legislators, 6% DON'T KNOW or WON'T SAY/5 Legislators, 14% DEPENDS or MIXED FEELINGS/13 Legislators.

"Would you support or oppose a law in New Mexico that would allow a person to marry a partner of the same sex?" 81% OPPOSE/75 Legislators, 5% SUPPORT/5 Legislators, 10% DON'T KNOW or WON'T SAY/9 Legislators, 4% DEPENDS or MIXED FEELINGS/4 Legislators.

"Would you support or oppose an amendment to the U.S. Constitution that prohibited same-sex marriages in every state?" 46% OPPOSE/43 Legislators, 43% SUPPORT/40 Legislators, 4% DEPENDS or MIXED FEELINGS/4 Legislators, 7% DON'T KNOW or WON'T SAY/6 Legislators.

Even though I know some of the ones who couldn't be contacted or wouldn't given an answer, I can't say how they would vote. The individual answers, by the way, are ALL over the field. Almost every possible combination is chosen by someone, except three "Support" answers in a row, which would flatly contradict itself as an answer.

I'll just say that gay marriage is NOT going to pass in New Mexico, but gay civil unions MIGHT, and the constitutional amendment would PROBABLY NOT. But the fight over civil unions would be tooth and nail. Mind you, I think most of the NM Legislature *really* doesn't want to deal with this issue...

From what I can tell it seems reasonable...though I thought there some sort of difference between marriage and civil unions, other than just semantics? But I don't know much about American laws on this subject though.