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Author Topic: In a Different Texas  (Read 14405 times)
Andy Jackson
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« on: June 17, 2008, 07:16:22 pm »
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I'm going to start posting soon about how the effects of a independent Texas effects world history.
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« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2008, 07:34:06 pm »
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We'd be a third world rump state, most likely. Tongue
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« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2008, 07:36:41 pm »
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We'd be a third world rump state, most likely. Tongue
Or we could possibly become a superpower.
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Andy Jackson
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« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2008, 08:22:53 pm »
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Here's where the timeline change happens. After a long debate between joining the United States or remaining a independent Republic. Mirabeau Lamar gives his famous "Empire Texas" speech and gives a small marginal victory to remain a Republic. New things were developing, border disputes with Texas and Mexico would spill over and lead to the Mexican-Texan War(1847-1849), with the ideals of Manifest Destiny running through the nation, Texans prepared for war with Mexico and the best military leaders of the Republic were sent to the front lines. The first flashpoint was called the Johnston Affair which a Mexican calvary unit attacked a attachment of Texan soldiers in the contested Rio Grande area, killing most of them and the few survivors retreated to Fort Brown. When General Thomas Rusk heard of this he ordered the full movement of Texan soldiers over the Rio Grande and an invasion of Mexico, the first real battle of the war, the Battle of Palo Alto which Texan forces led by Thomas Rusk fought the Mexican calvary led by Mariano Arista, the Mexican forces were sure they would crush the Texan forces with there numbers of soldiers but a decisive battle led General Rusk and the Texan forces to be triumphant in the battle, sending the Mexicans in retreat. The Texan forces would charge after the retreating Mexican forces and meet them again at the Battle of Resaca de la Palma, which Texan forces would crush the Mexican forces and send them in another retreat. After only a short time at war with Mexico, a large rebellion in California would divert many Mexican soldiers to the Californian front, letting the Texan forces to begin to flood Mexico.
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Andy Jackson
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« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2008, 09:03:58 pm »
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The war was going smoothly with a long drawn out was with the Mexican forces having to fight with Texas and the newly declared Republic of California, Texas forces cut threw the Mexican lines and advanced through Mexico, but it was slow and their ultimate goal was to starve out a peace with Mexico. A large boost to the war effort was when a large number of American Mormons took up arms and marched to join the Californian cause to liberate the land of Deseret from Mexico. Californian rebels took the small town of Yerba Buena at the Siege of Yerba Buenaand used it as a base to continue to strike at Mexican forces and a good port for the small California navy, led by former US Commodore Robert Stockton, who led daring raids across the Baja Peninsula. Texan forces were quickly stalling and becoming a battle slogging for a small advancement on the battlefield, this a stark opposite to California, the Mexican forces had retreated further into Loyalist areas and also sent many troops to fight against the Texan forces, leading to Commodore Robert Stockton to land at Los Angeles with virtually unopposed. As the Texan forces slowly made headway, US President Winifield Scott secretly funneled weapons to the Texan forces in hopes of putting Texas as the victor in the war. The most western parts of Mexico had fallen under Californian or Texan rule and with meetings between Texan President James Henderson and interim President William Ide worked out plans to send several regiments to help Texan and Californian forces, leading to a spectacular victories at the Battle of La Mesa, Battle of Monterrey and the Battle of Buena Vista, content for the war with Texas and California was growing with the Mexican people and said to end the war with the two nations before Mexico is butchered even more than it already is but the Mexican government under Santa Anna declined and continued the war with California and Texas.
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Andy Jackson
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« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2008, 09:55:21 pm »
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Tension had built up with the anti war supporters and pro war supporters and riots broke out in the Mexican capitol, Mexico City and all the while this was happening, Texan forces were marching to the important Mexican port city of Veracruz, which had been reinforced for an attack by Texan forces. At the Battle of Veracruza large Texan force, headed by Generals Thomas Rusk and Sidney Sherman attacked the port city in hopes of a crushing defeat of the Mexican forces there, but they soon had to besiege the city to bring the important port city under Texan control after weeks of heavy fighting for the city. After this the Mexican people became even more upset at this and the rebellions in the Baja Peninsula against the Mexican Empire, more support rallied around the Anti war movement against the Mexican-Texan War. After debating began to surrender to the Texan forces or continue to fight, what decided there minds was that Texan General Thomas Rusk said that he would march into the Mexican capitol of Mexico City and burn it to the ground in revenge after the many Texan towns that were burned by Mexican forces, after that Mexico officially surrendered to Texas and California in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, Mexico would secede a large portion of there most western possesions to the two nations and California would take control of the Baja Peninsula, which the two nations collected a lump sum of money and with the help of President Scott's Texan Transactional Actwould give a portion of money to Texas and California to pay to the Mexican government for the seceded land. California and Texas would split the new land that was acquired in the Mexican-Texan War, they used the Colorado River as a natural border and a physically drawn border to complete the new border between the two countries. This is how they look after they split the new lands between the Texas and California.



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« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2008, 10:04:47 pm »
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IIRC, Lamar supported an extension of Texas to the Pacific.

But keep up those maps. Smiley
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Andy Jackson
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« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2008, 10:11:42 pm »
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IIRC, Lamar supported an extension of Texas to the Pacific.

But keep up those maps. Smiley
Texas is going to push to the Pacific, but not California's Pacific coast, think more south.
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Andy Jackson
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« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2008, 10:33:02 pm »
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As Texas and California was glorious with the Mexican-Texan War and all the new land they accuired from it, things are not as good for the United States, President Winified Scott is having to run for reelection in 1852 but he hasn't had support from many Whigs because of his "cottling the Texan Republic" and these Anti Scott supporters back Daniel Webster for the Whig nomination. As a power struggle seems to consume the Whig party, divisions in the Democratic party are showing with their nomination of James Buchanan and Joseph Lane, two men who have a lax view on slavery. On the 6Th ballot, President Scott is renominated and drops his VP Millard Fillmore and replaces him with North Carolinan Governor William Graham, with division in both major parties, it does seem the election is anybody's win and with a major spoiler in effect, the Free Soil party has nominated John Hale and George Julian. The election is here.


Winifield Scott/Alexander Graham(151 EV 49% PV)
James Buchanan/Joseph Lane(140 EV 45% PV
John Hale/George Julian(0 EV 6% PV)
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2008, 12:00:28 am »
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IIRC, Lamar supported an extension of Texas to the Pacific.

But keep up those maps. Smiley
Texas is going to push to the Pacific, but not California's Pacific coast, think more south.

Ah...

Another nice map, BTW.
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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2008, 12:18:33 am »
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Thanks!
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Andy Jackson
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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2008, 08:49:58 am »
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As for Texas, it was about to elect a new president as well, already having President Rusk(1850-1853) of the Expansionist party in power and the one three year term the term limit for the President. Another General from the Mexican-Texan War would run for the presidency against Vice President Samuel Maverick in the Election of 1853. For Texas, the electoral college wasn't in use and they used the popular vote to choose the president but that was changing with the creation of Fredonia and Jacinto in 1851 and the hispanic populated state of Rio Grande. As for the 1853 election, the Expansionist, Lone Star and Whig parties ran candidates here and results showed that former General Sidney Sherman had about 45%, Samuel Maverick 37% and Henry Brewster 18%. Here's a map of what Texas looks like at the time of the 1853 Election.

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Andy Jackson
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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2008, 11:47:53 am »
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California:The Opening of Japan

The United States and the Republic of California began a competitive journey to open Japan to the Western trade, the main commanders were the US Commodore Matthew Perry and Californian Commodore Robert Stockton. On July 8Th, 1853 the CRS Sonoma sailed into the Japanese port city of Edo and officially won the race to open Japan to trade. Stockton's popularity would carry him to the presidency in the 1854 Californian Republic Election, making Stockton the second elected President of California.


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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2008, 12:49:25 pm »
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Who was the first President of California? And how long are terms? 3 years, like in Texas?

Excellent TL, BTW. Keep it up.
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Andy Jackson
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« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2008, 01:05:58 pm »
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Who was the first President of California? And how long are terms? 3 years, like in Texas?

Excellent TL, BTW. Keep it up.
Charles Fremont was the first Californian president and they serve a 3 year term and the only difference is that Texan Presidents usually serve only 3 years as Californian Presidents would serve two 3 year terms. Thanks!
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« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2008, 01:13:04 pm »
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Who was the first President of California? And how long are terms? 3 years, like in Texas?

Excellent TL, BTW. Keep it up.
Charles Fremont was the first Californian president and they serve a 3 year term and the only difference is that Texan Presidents usually serve only 3 years as Californian Presidents would serve two 3 year terms. Thanks!

I'm assuming you mean John Frémont?

Are the term limits forever, like in America (where Bill Clinton can never be President again),  or applying to continuous terms, like in the Republic of Texas (where Sam Houston was President #1 and #3).

Nitpicking, I know. Tongue
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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2008, 01:16:35 pm »
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This is remarkable, keep it up.

Btw, absolutely spectacular maps.
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« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2008, 01:25:21 pm »
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Who was the first President of California? And how long are terms? 3 years, like in Texas?

Excellent TL, BTW. Keep it up.
Charles Fremont was the first Californian president and they serve a 3 year term and the only difference is that Texan Presidents usually serve only 3 years as Californian Presidents would serve two 3 year terms. Thanks!

I'm assuming you mean John Frémont?

Are the term limits forever, like in America (where Bill Clinton can never be President again),  or applying to continuous terms, like in the Republic of Texas (where Sam Houston was President #1 and #3).

Nitpicking, I know. Tongue

Term limits in Texas and California are forever, but the first Texan president's only ran for one 3 year term as Californian President's usually run for two 3 year terms, but they have no limit so a Texan or Californian President could run for 8 terms or something like that.
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« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2008, 01:40:52 pm »
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Who was the first President of California? And how long are terms? 3 years, like in Texas?

Excellent TL, BTW. Keep it up.
Charles Fremont was the first Californian president and they serve a 3 year term and the only difference is that Texan Presidents usually serve only 3 years as Californian Presidents would serve two 3 year terms. Thanks!

I'm assuming you mean John Frémont?

Are the term limits forever, like in America (where Bill Clinton can never be President again),  or applying to continuous terms, like in the Republic of Texas (where Sam Houston was President #1 and #3).

Nitpicking, I know. Tongue

Term limits in Texas and California are forever, but the first Texan president's only ran for one 3 year term as Californian President's usually run for two 3 year terms, but they have no limit so a Texan or Californian President could run for 8 terms or something like that.

Not quite.

Article II, Section 2 of the 1836 Constitution:

"The first President elected by the people shall hold his office for the term of two years, and shall be ineligible suring the next succeeding term…"

http://texashistory.unt.edu/permalink/meta-pth-5872:1081

This is a form of term limits.
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Andy Jackson
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« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2008, 01:59:33 pm »
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Article II, Section 2 of the 1836 Constitution:

"The first President elected by the people shall hold his office for the term of two years, and shall be ineligible suring the next succeeding term…"

http://texashistory.unt.edu/permalink/meta-pth-5872:1081

This is a form of term limits.

I forgot to tell you that Mirabeau Lamar led a Constitutional Amendment that actually led to unlimited term limits, it was suppost to favor the Expansionist party but it had a a better effect with the Lone Star Party.
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« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2008, 02:01:36 pm »
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Article II, Section 2 of the 1836 Constitution:

"The first President elected by the people shall hold his office for the term of two years, and shall be ineligible suring the next succeeding term…"

http://texashistory.unt.edu/permalink/meta-pth-5872:1081

This is a form of term limits.

I forgot to tell you that Mirabeau Lamar led a Constitutional Amendment that actually led to unlimited term limits, it was suppost to favor the Expansionist party but it had a a better effect with the Lone Star Party.

Okay, then.
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« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2008, 02:16:18 pm »
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12Th President Winfield Scott(1849-1857)Whig

Under President Scott, numerous compromises were created, the Compromise of 1850, the New Missouri Compromise, the Kansas-Nebraska Act and the country had to begin to truly face the ideas of Slavery and "Popular Sovereignty". Major opponents of the Compromise of 1850 were the Northern Whig leaders who saw the 1850 Compromise as a Pro-South law that only benefitted slavery. The Fugitive Slave Act would be implaced and the Northerners would admit Oregon as a free state but it wouldn't satisfy many Southerners and would lead to the New Missouri Compromise which would draw the border between Slave and Free territory along the lines of the state of Missouri's most northern border. The new Missouri Compromise would satisfy the major leaders of the Northern Whigs, William Seward, Daniel Webster and Oregon Governor Abraham Lincoln grudgingly accepted the Compromise.


Slave States and Territories
Free States and Territories

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« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2008, 02:20:10 pm »
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So the southern part of the Nebraska Territory is slave while the rest is free?
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« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2008, 02:32:09 pm »
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I may have missed this, but what do you call the panhandle of Florida that is apparently now a state?
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« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2008, 02:34:13 pm »
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I may have missed this, but what do you call the panhandle of Florida that is apparently now a state?

The name for it has always been West Florida.
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