Hurricane Katrina vs. Devastating Iowa 500 Year Flood

[12th Doctor]

And, BTW, what saved those 10,000's of people wasn't Nagin's evacuation, it was about the closest thing to an act of God as we are likely to see... the storm was supposed to hit the city dead on, for reasons no one can explain, it shift east just before landfall, if it hadn't, then many, many, many more people would have died.

[minionofmidas]

Other mayors have dealt with natural disasters in the past far more effectively that Nagin did.

True in principle, but I can`t really think of a strictly comparable natural disaster anywhere in recent history... SF earthquake 190odd?

[MODU]

Other mayors have dealt with natural disasters in the past far more effectively that Nagin did.

True in principle, but I can`t really think of a strictly comparable natural disaster anywhere in recent history... SF earthquake 190odd?

That part is definitely true ... maybe short of 9/11 being the most recent before Katrina, and probably the great floods of the 90s.  However, Nagin failed to use the resources at hand when there was a good 4 day heads-up notice before the storm hit.  I would be much more forgiving of him if it was a surprise, but 4 days is a looooong time in modern terms.

[minionofmidas]

Other mayors have dealt with natural disasters in the past far more effectively that Nagin did.

True in principle, but I can`t really think of a strictly comparable natural disaster anywhere in recent history... SF earthquake 190odd?

That part is definitely true ... maybe short of 9/11 being the most recent before Katrina, and probably the great floods of the 90s.  However, Nagin failed to use the resources at hand when there was a good 4 day heads-up notice before the storm hit.  I would be much more forgiving of him if it was a surprise, but 4 days is a looooong time in modern terms.

9/11 is nowhere near on the same scale as far as no.s of people, area affected, etc is concerned. It killed more people, of course, but cruel as that may sound that's neither here nor there.

[MODU]

9/11 is nowhere near on the same scale as far as no.s of people, area affected, etc is concerned. It killed more people, of course, but cruel as that may sound that's neither here nor there.

Sure they are.  It resulted in mass confusion city wide, knocked out essential services such as rail and telecommunications, and shut down the bridges heading out of the island city forcing people to walk to the mainland or Long Island.  Services remained down for days.  On that scale, the two events are much alike.

[Хahar 🤔]

Other mayors have dealt with natural disasters in the past far more effectively that Nagin did.

True in principle, but I can`t really think of a strictly comparable natural disaster anywhere in recent history... SF earthquake 190odd?

1906 was completely unpredictable (though the ensuing fire was handled ludicrously badly).

[JSojourner]

My bigot brother in law is circulating that email but with a different answer.  It reads the same until the end, where it says...

"because some breeds of people ruin everything they have and everything you give them...while other breeds can pull themselves up by there (sic) own bootstraps...."

In short, Katrina victims were whiny blacks with a chip on their shoulders and a sense of entitlement.  While midwest flood victims were mostly whites who believe in hard work and personal responsibility.

Given the racist crap that spews from a couple of forum member keyboards, I am surprised I have not seen this version of the email circulated here.

[DownWithTheLeft]

My bigot brother in law is circulating that email but with a different answer.  It reads the same until the end, where it says...

"because some breeds of people ruin everything they have and everything you give them...while other breeds can pull themselves up by there (sic) own bootstraps...."

In short, Katrina victims were whiny blacks with a chip on their shoulders and a sense of entitlement.  While midwest flood victims were mostly whites who believe in hard work and personal responsibility.

Given the racist crap that spews from a couple of forum member keyboards, I am surprised I have not seen this version of the email circulated here.

It has nothing to do with race, the people involved in Katrina did have a sense of entitlement and cared little about personal responsibility, just who they could blame for their problem.

[JSojourner]

My bigot brother in law is circulating that email but with a different answer.  It reads the same until the end, where it says...

"because some breeds of people ruin everything they have and everything you give them...while other breeds can pull themselves up by there (sic) own bootstraps...."

In short, Katrina victims were whiny blacks with a chip on their shoulders and a sense of entitlement.  While midwest flood victims were mostly whites who believe in hard work and personal responsibility.

Given the racist crap that spews from a couple of forum member keyboards, I am surprised I have not seen this version of the email circulated here.

It has nothing to do with race, the people involved in Katrina did have a sense of entitlement and cared little about personal responsibility, just who they could blame for their problem.

They just happened to be black is all, right? 

[DownWithTheLeft]

My bigot brother in law is circulating that email but with a different answer.  It reads the same until the end, where it says...

"because some breeds of people ruin everything they have and everything you give them...while other breeds can pull themselves up by there (sic) own bootstraps...."

In short, Katrina victims were whiny blacks with a chip on their shoulders and a sense of entitlement.  While midwest flood victims were mostly whites who believe in hard work and personal responsibility.

Given the racist crap that spews from a couple of forum member keyboards, I am surprised I have not seen this version of the email circulated here.

It has nothing to do with race, the people involved in Katrina did have a sense of entitlement and cared little about personal responsibility, just who they could blame for their problem.

They just happened to be black is all, right? 

I'm sure plenty of them were not, its just inner city people in general tend to be minorities.  If they were all white I'm sure the same thing would have happened.

[Albus Dumbledore]

Apparently Jsojourner's brother-in-law was asleep during any form of instruction regarding black history in the united states. Either that or he's someone pining for the antebellum days when slaves worked on the land and knew their place.

[Albus Dumbledore]

My bigot brother in law is circulating that email but with a different answer.  It reads the same until the end, where it says...

"because some breeds of people ruin everything they have and everything you give them...while other breeds can pull themselves up by there (sic) own bootstraps...."

In short, Katrina victims were whiny blacks with a chip on their shoulders and a sense of entitlement.  While midwest flood victims were mostly whites who believe in hard work and personal responsibility.

Given the racist crap that spews from a couple of forum member keyboards, I am surprised I have not seen this version of the email circulated here.

It has nothing to do with race, the people involved in Katrina did have a sense of entitlement and cared little about personal responsibility, just who they could blame for their problem.

They just happened to be black is all, right? 

I'm sure plenty of them were not, its just inner city people in general tend to be minorities.  If they were all white I'm sure the same thing would have happened.

If you enslave people for more than 2 centuries then deny them any rights for a further centery and when you do grant them rights/any integration you do it in a halting and slow manner don't be surprised if they turn out not to be well-adjusted, happy, middle class folks.

[dead0man]

Given the racist crap that spews from a couple of forum member keyboards, I am surprised I have not seen this version of the email circulated here.

The anti-Sem....errrr, anti-Zionists are going to blame this on the Jews too?

[Albus Dumbledore]

Lumping anti-zionism to anti-semitism. Classy. <_<

[dead0man]

Saying they have nothing to do with each other.  Denial.  <-<

[Sbane]

Saying they have nothing to do with each other.  Denial.  <-<

So I hate jews? Thats news to me.

[Bacon King]

and tens of thousands of idiots chose to leave instead of stay.

For putting down idiots you certainly are playing the part yourself. In fact, I have already debunked this specific "argument" by you before. See below.

Let me walk you through the facts here.

The poverty line for a family of four is $20,444 per year. That's $393 a week, before taxes, rent, food, etc. Around 100,000 people displaced by Katrina were below the poverty line (source), so one would assume a sizable portion of New Orleans was making less than $400 a week.

Assuming, say, an evacuation to Baton Rouge, which was closer than most, evacuees would travel around eighty miles one way, spending about $30 on gas for a round trip- assuming they even had a car. Riding the bus is more expensive. A hotel room for four costs at least $50 a night (usually more, you know), and considering a stay of at least two nights, a hotel stay would cost at least $120 with taxes.

That's $150 just to evacuate and find a place to stay. Do you seriously think that a family can easily afford to make such a sudden payment when they make less than $400 a week? If so, you are hopelessly disillusioned.

[Ban my account ffs!]

and tens of thousands of idiots chose to leave instead of stay.

For putting down idiots you certainly are playing the part yourself. In fact, I have already debunked this specific "argument" by you before. See below.

Let me walk you through the facts here.

The poverty line for a family of four is $20,444 per year. That's $393 a week, before taxes, rent, food, etc. Around 100,000 people displaced by Katrina were below the poverty line (source), so one would assume a sizable portion of New Orleans was making less than $400 a week.

Assuming, say, an evacuation to Baton Rouge, which was closer than most, evacuees would travel around eighty miles one way, spending about $30 on gas for a round trip- assuming they even had a car. Riding the bus is more expensive. A hotel room for four costs at least $50 a night (usually more, you know), and considering a stay of at least two nights, a hotel stay would cost at least $120 with taxes.

That's $150 just to evacuate and find a place to stay. Do you seriously think that a family can easily afford to make such a sudden payment when they make less than $400 a week? If so, you are hopelessly disillusioned.

Why they didn't leave doesn't matter... it's just the fact that they didn't leave that support his argument, so that's what he'll use.

Never ask why, just look, react, and decide.

[Smash255]

My bigot brother in law is circulating that email but with a different answer.  It reads the same until the end, where it says...

"because some breeds of people ruin everything they have and everything you give them...while other breeds can pull themselves up by there (sic) own bootstraps...."

In short, Katrina victims were whiny blacks with a chip on their shoulders and a sense of entitlement.  While midwest flood victims were mostly whites who believe in hard work and personal responsibility.

Given the racist crap that spews from a couple of forum member keyboards, I am surprised I have not seen this version of the email circulated here.

It has nothing to do with race, the people involved in Katrina did have a sense of entitlement and cared little about personal responsibility, just who they could blame for their problem.

The people involved in Katrina didn't have a sense of entitlement and it wasn't that they cared little for personal responsibility, thats utter crap.  The people of Katrina were mainly dirt poor, and in poverty.   The area hardest hit by Katrina was the poorest areas of one of the poorest cities in the U.S

[dead0man]

Aye.  I agree some were to poor to leave and they are not idiots for not leaving, they didn't have a choice.  Their local govt officials (idiots) let them down. 

But we're in agreement that the non-poor that didn't leave were idiots?

[jesmo]

Jsojourner, texaslefty told me that along with me, dwtl is on your ignore list. Why did you respond to him?

[Nym90]

When things get bad in the upper midwest, we pretty much have to clean it up ourselves.

It's just a completely different (and better) work ethic here.  You don't ask questions, you just pitch in.  I'd say a lot of it comes down to community where "we" and "our" is more important than "me" and "my"

So communitarianism works better than libertarianism? I'm shocked!

I agree, though. The attitude is very different in this part of the country.

Also, the media is biased in favor of urban areas and against rural ones; I don't think that surprises anyone. Though the number of deaths was of course much greater in New Orleans, which does in and of itself deserve to make it a bigger story.

[JSojourner]

Apparently Jsojourner's brother-in-law was asleep during any form of instruction regarding black history in the united states. Either that or he's someone pining for the antebellum days when slaves worked on the land and knew their place.

The latter.  He actually taught history for awhile.  He believes slavery was a God-ordained institution under which slaves were well-treated, better off and Christianized.

He's a big fan of the Bob Jones University history curriculum for Christian schools and home schoolers.  His favorite book on American history is Peter Marshall's horrendously bad, The Light and the Glory.

This is why I tell people here, and elsewhere, these religious right fanatics are not confined to a single Baptist church in Witchita, Kansas with a pastor named Phelps.

Hell, until I was about 21...I was pretty much one of them.  Most of my family still is.  Americans like these are not rarities by any stretch.  They may be less common or visible in some places, like both coasts.  But in the midwest and south, they are ubiquitous.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Apparently Jsojourner's brother-in-law was asleep during any form of instruction regarding black history in the united states. Either that or he's someone pining for the antebellum days when slaves worked on the land and knew their place.

The latter.  He actually taught history for awhile.  He believes slavery was a God-ordained institution under which slaves were well-treated, better off and Christianized.

He's a big fan of the Bob Jones University history curriculum for Christian schools and home schoolers.  His favorite book on American history is Peter Marshall's horrendously bad, The Light and the Glory.

This is why I tell people here, and elsewhere, these religious right fanatics are not confined to a single Baptist church in Witchita, Kansas with a pastor named Phelps.

Hell, until I was about 21...I was pretty much one of them.  Most of my family still is.  Americans like these are not rarities by any stretch.  They may be less common or visible in some places, like both coasts.  But in the midwest and south, they are ubiquitous.

LOL @ how you think your high and mighty because you have a different belief system than someone else

[Person Man]

I was in the Iowa Flood. There was no comparision with Katrina. Whoever started this thread is a hack.