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| | |-+  Opinion of Pope John XXIII
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Author Topic: Opinion of Pope John XXIII  (Read 2634 times)
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« on: June 25, 2008, 12:01:09 am »
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Big time FF; one of the greatest Popes in history.
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Obama High's debate team:

"Now let me be clear...I...I...um...uh...now let me be clear.  I strongly condemn the affirmative in the strongest possible terms, and I am closely monitoring their arguments.  Let me be clear on this."
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« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2008, 12:06:55 am »
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HP, like all Popes.
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« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2008, 12:35:08 am »
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Who?
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benconstine
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« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2008, 12:39:54 am »
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Who?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_XXIII
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Obama High's debate team:

"Now let me be clear...I...I...um...uh...now let me be clear.  I strongly condemn the affirmative in the strongest possible terms, and I am closely monitoring their arguments.  Let me be clear on this."
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« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2008, 12:15:43 pm »
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Why doesn't constine just convert to Catholicism already?
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« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2008, 12:18:47 pm »
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Why doesn't constine just convert to Catholicism already?

Why would I convert to Catholicism?
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Obama High's debate team:

"Now let me be clear...I...I...um...uh...now let me be clear.  I strongly condemn the affirmative in the strongest possible terms, and I am closely monitoring their arguments.  Let me be clear on this."
DownWithTheLeft
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« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2008, 01:05:23 pm »
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HP, like all Popes.
Quite an intelligent comment
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Gov. Christopher J. Christie
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« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2008, 01:10:16 pm »
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Why doesn't constine just convert to Catholicism already?

I imagine a lot of his opinion involves John XXIII's being a Righteous among the Nation.
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« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2008, 01:15:58 pm »
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Actually I'll change my vote after reading this from the wiki article:

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He is also commemorated on June 3 by the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
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« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2008, 01:25:51 pm »
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Why doesn't constine just convert to Catholicism already?

I imagine a lot of his opinion involves John XXIII's being a Righteous among the Nation.

That did play a large factor; in addition to his general acts of kindness towards the less fortunate.
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Obama High's debate team:

"Now let me be clear...I...I...um...uh...now let me be clear.  I strongly condemn the affirmative in the strongest possible terms, and I am closely monitoring their arguments.  Let me be clear on this."
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« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2008, 01:37:11 pm »
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FF for calling the 2nd Vatican Council. It was sorely needed. Ughh, I don't think I could stand a Tridentine Mass.
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DownWithTheLeft
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« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2008, 01:50:12 pm »
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FF for calling the 2nd Vatican Council. It was sorely needed. Ughh, I don't think I could stand a Tridentine Mass.
He created Vatican II, the ruination of the Catholic Church?  Then I vote HP
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Gov. Christopher J. Christie
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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2008, 01:57:28 pm »
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FF for calling the 2nd Vatican Council. It was sorely needed. Ughh, I don't think I could stand a Tridentine Mass.
He created Vatican II, the ruination of the Catholic Church?  Then I vote HP

Far too many people use V2 as a scapegoat for the Catholic Church's problems. That is simple-minded and pathetic in my opinion.
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« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2008, 02:17:25 pm »
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Actually I'll change my vote after reading this from the wiki article:

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He is also commemorated on June 3 by the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America

So your church says you can't hate all popes?
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« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2008, 02:19:12 pm »
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Actually I'll change my vote after reading this from the wiki article:

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He is also commemorated on June 3 by the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America

It's good you have some person in authority to dictate all of your religious beliefs to you.  Like about how much you hate that other group that has a person in authority who does that.
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« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2008, 04:02:22 pm »
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FF for calling the 2nd Vatican Council. It was sorely needed. Ughh, I don't think I could stand a Tridentine Mass.
He created Vatican II, the ruination of the Catholic Church?  Then I vote HP

Far too many people use V2 as a scapegoat for the Catholic Church's problems. That is simple-minded and pathetic in my opinion.
I don't mean Catholic Church problems as far as sex abuse, I mean Catholic Church's problem in becoming more of a liberal Protestant church to try and attract new members rather than keeping strict conservative teachings
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Gov. Christopher J. Christie
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« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2008, 11:01:43 pm »
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Actually I'll change my vote after reading this from the wiki article:

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He is also commemorated on June 3 by the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America

It's good you have some person in authority to dictate all of your religious beliefs to you.  Like about how much you hate that other group that has a person in authority who does that.

Religious beliefs? It's a FF/HP poll. I meant that as a joke almost. Please note my reasoning for my former HP vote to boot. It is worth noting though how Protestant denoms like the one linked in the wiki article actually show respect for Popes, more than I ever show (ELCA and a bunch of other Protestant denoms issued glowing statements about John Paul II after he died) yet the current piece of trash Pope is hardly reciprocating that respect.
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« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2008, 11:09:23 pm »
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He's the "good" Pope isn't he? For the late John Paul, I would have voted neither. He was a mixed bag in my moral universe.
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« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2008, 11:12:22 pm »
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FF for calling the 2nd Vatican Council. It was sorely needed. Ughh, I don't think I could stand a Tridentine Mass.
He created Vatican II, the ruination of the Catholic Church?  Then I vote HP

Far too many people use V2 as a scapegoat for the Catholic Church's problems. That is simple-minded and pathetic in my opinion.
I don't mean Catholic Church problems as far as sex abuse, I mean Catholic Church's problem in becoming more of a liberal Protestant church to try and attract new members rather than keeping strict conservative teachings

No, they simply addressed problems that needed attention and reaffirmed the Catholic faith and doctrine.
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DownWithTheLeft
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« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2008, 11:25:16 am »
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FF for calling the 2nd Vatican Council. It was sorely needed. Ughh, I don't think I could stand a Tridentine Mass.
He created Vatican II, the ruination of the Catholic Church?  Then I vote HP

Far too many people use V2 as a scapegoat for the Catholic Church's problems. That is simple-minded and pathetic in my opinion.
I don't mean Catholic Church problems as far as sex abuse, I mean Catholic Church's problem in becoming more of a liberal Protestant church to try and attract new members rather than keeping strict conservative teachings

No, they simply addressed problems that needed attention and reaffirmed the Catholic faith and doctrine.
Getting rid of the Latin mass was a huge mistake.  The Catholic Church is a bastardized version of its former self, I don't think I enjoy belonging to a church (meaning the version of the church now not its teaching, which I do admire) which allows people who support abortion and other acts of violence to become members.  The church should be about purity and having members who adhere to the doctrine, not about inclusion.  If someone wants to say their a Catholic, they should live like one, which has nothing to do with going to mass.
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Gov. Christopher J. Christie
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« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2008, 12:55:09 pm »
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FF for calling the 2nd Vatican Council. It was sorely needed. Ughh, I don't think I could stand a Tridentine Mass.
He created Vatican II, the ruination of the Catholic Church?  Then I vote HP

Far too many people use V2 as a scapegoat for the Catholic Church's problems. That is simple-minded and pathetic in my opinion.
I don't mean Catholic Church problems as far as sex abuse, I mean Catholic Church's problem in becoming more of a liberal Protestant church to try and attract new members rather than keeping strict conservative teachings

No, they simply addressed problems that needed attention and reaffirmed the Catholic faith and doctrine.
Getting rid of the Latin mass was a huge mistake.  The Catholic Church is a bastardized version of its former self, I don't think I enjoy belonging to a church (meaning the version of the church now not its teaching, which I do admire) which allows people who support abortion and other acts of violence to become members.  The church should be about purity and having members who adhere to the doctrine, not about inclusion.  If someone wants to say their a Catholic, they should live like one, which has nothing to do with going to mass.

The Tridentine mass is a optional way of conducting mass. It always has been. There has never been a universal way of saying mass in the Catholic Church. The tridentine mass was only largely used after 1570 and the Council of Trent.

I have a fundamental disagreement with you about the direction of the Church. I believe the Church must focus on equality in the Church, ministry to the poor and participative liturgy.
Remember, Jesus kept some diverse company in his travels, many that were unwelcome at synagogue's back then. Acceptance is key to the future of the Church.
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« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2008, 02:14:49 pm »
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Flem, I understand your point.  But don't you think there is a difference between acceptance of people and acceptance of their ideas?  Jesus was trying to show people the light, not ignoring their flaws
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Gov. Christopher J. Christie
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« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2008, 02:26:06 pm »
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Flem, I understand your point.  But don't you think there is a difference between acceptance of people and acceptance of their ideas?  Jesus was trying to show people the light, not ignoring their flaws

Not necessarily. I believe one must keep an open mind, consider the logic of one's actions and how it affects the Church, and reflect openly over controversial issue.
The Church cannot simply ignore its own members ideas and belief. We must have an open dialect.
The Vatican must not continue avoiding real debate on real issues that potentially harm the entire Church.
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