Pollster battle...
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Sam Spade
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« on: June 25, 2008, 07:51:06 PM »

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/too-large-of-a.html

Too large a Democratic advantage in new L.A. Times/Bloomberg poll?

A well-known Republican research firm argues that the voter pool tapped for the new L.A. Times/Bloomberg poll was too skewed toward Democrats -- a challenge that causes the GOP strategists to question the double-digit lead the survey gave Barack Obama over John McCain.

The case against the poll, laid out in a memo sent out today by Public Opinion Strategies, in turn sparked a response from survey director Susan Pinkus, who stood by its methodology and findings.

Part of the dispute reflects a long-standing disagreement between independent pollsters and partisan operatives (something The Times wrote about four years ago) -- whether or not to tinker with a poll to make sure its respondents reflect the nation's political composition at some fixed point, such as the most recent election.

Pinkus, like most nonpartisan pollsters, rejects that notion. Discussing the current survey, she says, "The poll was weighted slightly, where necessary,  to conform to the Census Bureau’s proportions of sex, race, ethnicity, age and national region. The poll was NOT weighted for party identification since party ID is a moving variable that changes from one election to another, or when one party may be favored more than the other."

As a result, the survey simply asked respondents their party affiliation or inclination, and came up with this breakdown: 39% Democratic, 22% Republican, 8% something else, 4% refused to say.

There's the rub, insists the memo from Bill McInturff, Liz Harrington and David Kanevsky. They write that these figures, and the 17 percentage-point gap between the two parties, are "greatly out of line with what most other surveys are reporting."

The memo cites several other recent polls in which the party ID gap ranged as low as  plus 6 percentage points for the Democrats to as high as plus 14.

It then asserts: "McCain’s double-digit deficit is not a reflection of reality, simply a result of an unusual party identification result in this survey.... If party identification on the L.A. Times survey is recalculated to ... 29% GOP / 39% Dem / 27% Ind / 5% Don’t Know/Refused, the ballot would be 40% McCain – 47% Obama."

Pinkus responds that ...

... while the result for self-described Democrats may seem high, "this is what the poll got from a random sample of 1,233 adults nationwide, including 1,115 registered voters (which includes listed, unlisted and cell phone users)."

She also notes: "These days, the Republicans are not doing well -– (in the new poll) 78% think the country is seriously off on the wrong track, 82% think the economy is doing badly, 75% said the country is worse off economically since George Bush became president almost eight years ago, and more voters blame Bush and his administration for the rise in gas prices.  Only 23% of voters and all Americans give Bush a positive job approval rating (the worst rating since President Nixon's last days in office).  With all the negatives associated with the Republican Party and President Bush, I am not surprised that the public would move away from the party in power."

You can count on this type of argument over poll results flaring periodically during this campaign ... and in future races.

The Public Opinion Strategies memo makes this good point: "It is important that both the campaign, as well as reporters covering the campaign, not over-react to every single survey that is released. "

And, as pollsters such as Pinkus continually caution the journalists they work with, surveys are useful for spotting trends but they also are only a snapshot of a particular moment in time.

-- Don Frederick

I'll post the Vorlon piece on this from 2004 when I get back.  Also, unless the law has changed from 2004 (and I don't think it has - Alcon please correct me if wrong - you can't poll cell phone users), so I don't get that statement.
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Beet
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« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2008, 07:56:28 PM »

One thing I would look at is what they asked first- the question about Presidential candidates, or the question about party identification. One can make a case that one's answer to an earlier question will influence one's reply to a later question, particularly when party identifications are weak (which is probably more due to leaning independents). I would never ask any question that would influence the result of a later, more important question.
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Eraserhead
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« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2008, 11:05:13 PM »

The LA Times poll is garbage. 'Nuff said.
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2008, 11:57:15 AM »

Rasmussen on the matter...

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/why_polls_sometimes_show_different_results

Why Polls Sometimes Show Different Results
Thursday, June 26, 2008

Since Barack Obama clinched the Democratic Presidential Nomination, most polls have shown the Illinois Senator with a modest lead over John McCain, typically around five percentage points. However, two recent polls, one by Newsweek and one by the Los Angeles Times, have shown Obama with a double digit lead.

Republicans quickly noted that the polling samples included an unusually large number of Democrats and small number of Republicans. “The case against the poll, laid out in a memo sent out today by Public Opinion Strategies, in turn sparked a response from survey director Susan Pinkus, who stood by its methodology and findings.”

At the core of this flap is a polling industry disagreement about the best way to deal with partisan identification in constructing a poll. Just about everyone agrees that party identification is one of the strongest indicators as to how a person will vote. A Republican is overwhelmingly likely to vote for a GOP candidate and a Democrat is overwhelmingly likely to do the opposite.

However, the challenge lies in finding the “right” mix of Republicans, Democrats, and unaffiliated voters. Some pollsters, including many academic and media pollsters, argue that partisan identification is fluid and changes frequently. This approach suggests that whatever partisan mix falls out from the results of a random sample is the “right” answer. In the case of the recent L.A. Times poll, this mix was 39% Democrats and 22% Republicans.

Polls that use this approach tend to produce a more volatile set of results (during Election 2004, one national firm reported results days apart that showed more than a ten-point swing in voter preference).

Others, including most political polling firms and Rasmussen Reports, argue that people rarely change their partisan affiliation (how many people do you know who consider themselves a Republican one day and a Democrat the next?). This approach produces more stable results. During Election 2004, Rasmussen Reports polling data never showed either candidate ahead by more than 3 points in our weekly data. Week-to-week changes were never bigger than a point-and-a-half.

This stable view of the electorate seems more intuitively correct. It is unlikely that large segments of voters change their views frequently during the campaign. Even today, when one-in-three voters say they could change their mind between now and Election Day, it is likely that these voters will gradually grow more or less comfortable with their default choice. It is highly unlikely that these voters will hang on every utterance by the Obama and McCain campaigns and change their preferences accordingly.

It is even more unlikely that people will change their partisan identification on a regular basis. For most Americans, party preferences are like favorite sports teams. You’re born into being a fan for one side of the other. Over time, if your team (i.e.—the Republicans) disappoints you often enough, you will drift into unaffiliated status. If things turn around (or if the other side looks even worse than you thought), you might drift back. But, the key word is drift… these decisions happen gradually over time.

Still, even if you believe that partisan identification is fairly constant, how can a pollster know what the mix of Republicans and Democrats should be?

It’s inappropriate to simply use the results from the last election. After all, a lot has changed over the past four years (and most of it has not been good for the Republican Party label). If you assumed that the mix of Republicans and Democrats this year will be the same as it was four years ago, you will end up with results far too favorable for the GOP.

At Rasmussen Reports, we address this issue by measuring changes in partisan identification on a monthly basis. We interview 15,000 people each month by telephone to dramatically reduce the level of statistical noise and get a stable result (see our latest partisan trends update and month-by-month numbers). This approach shows gradual shifts over time in keeping with the general flow of the political environment. During Election 2004, the GOP gained ground slightly as the campaign wore on. During Election 2006, the Democrats peaked at just the right time. Democrats struggled a bit (in relative terms) after taking control of Congress in 2007, but experienced a tremendous bounce during the early portions of Election 2008.

At the moment, our data shows that just over 41% of the population consider themselves to be Democrats and just under 32% are Republicans. We use the this information as the starting point for determining the mix of Republicans and Democrats in our national and state political surveys.

As a consumer of polling data, it is good to have a wide variety of information to review. It is helpful to have some polls assembled in the manner preferred by most academic and media pollsters. It is also good to have data available based upon more firmly established parameters of partisan identification. In the end, a dose of common sense and critical thinking is required.

There are currently polls showing results ranging from Obama by double digits (Newsweek and the L.A. Times) to a tie (Gallup). Most polls, including Rasmussen Reports, show something in the middle and that’s probably the best estimate of where the race stands today… and where it has been for the past few weeks.

On June 26, 2008, the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll, showed that--without leaners--Obama’s support has stayed between 45% and 47% for fifteen straight days. With leaners, he has stayed between 48% and 50% for twenty-one straight days.

As for McCain, his support has been at 40% or 41% on nineteen of the last twenty-two days. Twice, he inched up a point above that range and once he slipped a point below. With leaners, McCain’s support has stayed between 42% and 45% every day since Obama clinched the Democratic Presidential Nomination.

We don’t know where those numbers will be come November, but we expect that they will get there by moving gradually over weeks and months.
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nyquil_man
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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2008, 07:03:01 AM »

A 17 point advantage in party ID certainly seems extreme; the 10 point advantage in the "corrected" version and the 9 point advantage cited by Rasmussen seem far more accurate. And a 7 point lead for Obama, while still a bit high, also feels closer to the truth.
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