Zell Miller is on the stage...

[Giant Saguaro]

He's lettin' 'em have it! Good old southeastern style preachin', it sounds like to me. Way to go, Zell!

Not their patriotism, but rather their judgment that is of question - thank you, Zell.

[Giant Saguaro]

This so far has been about the best Republican convention in my recollection. Even considering that the comedy routine hopes the Bush daughters may have had in mind came to a screeching, grinding halt before it even got started, but you can't have everything.

These folks are absolutely charged; man, I'll bet it's fun there.

[Giant Saguaro]

I don't think Zell has changed as much as the Democrat party. When I think of the traditional southern Democrat, I think strong on defense, kind of right on social issues, but social issues weren't as dominant as they are now, and probably left of center on economic issues. I can handle that, I don't have a huge problem with that. Now maybe he backed Carter or whoever, but he did that probably out of sense of loyalty to a guy from his state and party. That was the '70s, now.

[Giant Saguaro]

Zell Miller: "John Kerry is a man unsure of whether the United States is a force of good or evil in the world."

That quote is probably not far off the mark, actually. One could certainly defend it, anyway. He has consistently displayed to me anyway that he sees the USA as the aggressors in the world. And the stuff he said about our troops before Congress... Kerry is still in a different world, a leftist dreamworld perhaps, and he's clearly out of touch and sync.

[Giant Saguaro]

Zell Miller: "John Kerry is a man unsure of whether the United States is a force of good or evil in the world."

That quote is probably not far off the mark, actually. One could certainly defend it, anyway. He has consistently displayed to me anyway that he sees the USA as the aggressors in the world. And the stuff he said about our troops before Congress... Kerry is still in a different world, a leftist dreamworld perhaps, and he's clearly out of touch and sync.

Oh please.  You really think John Kerry thinks American is evil?  

That's why he spent 25 years in public service?  He thinks America is evil.

He clearly and obviously sees and has seen the USA as aggressors. He didn't even vote for the '91 Gulf War.

He spent his 25 years, Boss, fighting the establishment, supporting intel cuts, stripping the military. Even Dennis (and I'll butcher his last name) Diconsini (D-AZ) said in 1994 that Kerry was seeking Intel and military cuts that "they could not withstand." That's frightening. I think Kerry sees us as not good, I'll say that.

[Giant Saguaro]

So, calling Bush a Nazi is treason.....but saying Kerry hates America and thinks it is a force of evil in this world is fair game?  Wow.

There's no basis for calling Bush a Nazi. He's actually very far from Nazi-ism. There IS a basis for arguing that Kerry clearly sees the USA as the bad guys and the aggressors. WHY can't you guys see that?

Have any of you libs ever listened to how he smeared our vets in front of Congress?

[Giant Saguaro]

He was just grilled on his inteview on CNN some moments ago. He couldn't answer any single question they made him. They showed him that Cheney also oppossed many of the weapons that he accussed Kerry of voting against.. and he didn't know what to say.
They told him that Bush has also said that American Forces are 'occupying' Iraq.. and he didn't know what to reply: "Well, I don't know about that" and they showed it to him.
He just didn't get his facts right and this could actually backfire. He was so bitter and pissed off.

But Kerry supported more cuts, deeper cuts, cuts "they could not withstand."

I don't like ANY cuts in Intel or military, but if it's cuts or cuts that will all-out decimate the Intel community, I guess I'll just have to settle for cuts then!

[Giant Saguaro]

So, calling Bush a Nazi is treason.....but saying Kerry hates America and thinks it is a force of evil in this world is fair game?  Wow.

There's no basis for calling Bush a Nazi. He's actually very far from Nazi-ism. There IS a basis for arguing that Kerry clearly sees the USA as the bad guys and the aggressors. WHY can't you guys see that?

Have any of you libs ever listened to how he smeared our vets in front of Congress?

MAYBE THE MAN DOESN'T THINK THE US SHOULD BE THE AGGRESORS IN THE WORLD!  MAYBE HE WANTS TO BE PRESIDENT TO CHANGE THIS COUNTRY FOR THE BETTER!  MAYBE HE DOESN'T WANT TO SEE GOOD MEN AND WOMEN DIE IN VAIN!  

Wow, so you guys DO see defending ourselves as acting as aggressors. Amazing. Or I should say the war on terror.

[Giant Saguaro]

So, calling Bush a Nazi is treason.....but saying Kerry hates America and thinks it is a force of evil in this world is fair game?  Wow.

There's no basis for calling Bush a Nazi. He's actually very far from Nazi-ism. There IS a basis for arguing that Kerry clearly sees the USA as the bad guys and the aggressors. WHY can't you guys see that?

Have any of you libs ever listened to how he smeared our vets in front of Congress?

MAYBE THE MAN DOESN'T THINK THE US SHOULD BE THE AGGRESORS IN THE WORLD!  MAYBE HE WANTS TO BE PRESIDENT TO CHANGE THIS COUNTRY FOR THE BETTER!  MAYBE HE DOESN'T WANT TO SEE GOOD MEN AND WOMEN DIE IN VAIN!  

Wow, so you guys DO see defending ourselves as acting as aggressors. Amazing.

Of course they do. Any US military operations in our own self interest and not sanctioned by the UN is evil.

See, these people end up pushing me really, really far to the right. I don't think average ordinary people see it this way, but I have to agree with you. I know a lot of average ordinary Democrats, they support the war, and while it's limited to people I know, they are defecting to Bush left and right (no pun intended).

The war on terror = aggression, that was the undercurrent to the Dean message that caught fire and was passed on to a lower key John Kerry.

[Giant Saguaro]

Of course they do. Any US military operations in our own self interest and not sanctioned by the UN is evil.

Then why did Kerry vote for the 2002 war resolution?

Why does he vote two ways on everything? So he can try and please everybody. He voted for the war in 2002 so it couldn't be thrown back in his face, obviously, but it didn't matter if he had because it just ended up another inconsistency.

[Giant Saguaro]

Of course they do. Any US military operations in our own self interest and not sanctioned by the UN is evil.

Then why did Kerry vote for the 2002 war resolution?

Why does he vote two ways on everything? So he can try and please everybody. He voted for the war in 2002 so it couldn't be thrown back in his face, obviously, but it didn't matter if he had because it just ended up another inconsistency.

How do you know his motives?  Were you there?

My opinion?  He voted for the war because it felt it was the right thing to do.

That's fine if that's your opinion, but I disagree. He votes against the Gulf War, smears our vets, the AZ Democrat just 10 years ago says he's proposing cuts far deeper than anyone else, he was against standing up to the Soviet Union, he was for a nuclear freeze, and then he turns around in 2002 with a Presidential run coming up and votes for authorization to use force. Well that goes against everything he had said and done 30 years before it, so it's obvious to me he didn't want it thrown back in his face. But it hurt him a bit anyway, because it showed up as just him trying to cover all the bases.

[Giant Saguaro]

So, calling Bush a Nazi is treason.....but saying Kerry hates America and thinks it is a force of evil in this world is fair game?  Wow.

There's no basis for calling Bush a Nazi. He's actually very far from Nazi-ism. There IS a basis for arguing that Kerry clearly sees the USA as the bad guys and the aggressors. WHY can't you guys see that?

Have any of you libs ever listened to how he smeared our vets in front of Congress?

MAYBE THE MAN DOESN'T THINK THE US SHOULD BE THE AGGRESORS IN THE WORLD!  MAYBE HE WANTS TO BE PRESIDENT TO CHANGE THIS COUNTRY FOR THE BETTER!  MAYBE HE DOESN'T WANT TO SEE GOOD MEN AND WOMEN DIE IN VAIN!  

Wow, so you guys DO see defending ourselves as acting as aggressors. Amazing. Or I should say the war on terror.

Iraq posed no clear threat to us or anyone else.  I know all to well of Saddam's horrible history, but attacking him did not change the past and people hundreds of thousands of soldiers into harm's way on false pretenses.  

It's another place where terrorists will not be offered a haven. Read the 9/11 Commission Report.

We can't set around and wait for an atomic weapon to be detonated over one or more of our cities or for another terrorist attack to happen before we respond. I'm glad George W. Bush understands that!

[Giant Saguaro]

Of course they do. Any US military operations in our own self interest and not sanctioned by the UN is evil.

Then why did Kerry vote for the 2002 war resolution?

Why does he vote two ways on everything? So he can try and please everybody. He voted for the war in 2002 so it couldn't be thrown back in his face, obviously, but it didn't matter if he had because it just ended up another inconsistency.

How do you know his motives?  Were you there?

My opinion?  He voted for the war because it felt it was the right thing to do.

That's fine if that's your opinion, but I disagree. He votes against the Gulf War, smears our vets, the AZ Democrat just 10 years ago says he's proposing cuts far deeper than anyone else, he was against standing up to the Soviet Union, he was for a nuclear freeze, and then he turns around in 2002 with a Presidential run coming up and votes for authorization to use force. Well that goes against everything he had said and done 30 years before it, so it's obvious to me he didn't want it thrown back in his face. But it hurt him a bit anyway, because it showed up as just him trying to cover all the bases.

\


As far as the Intel Cuts goes, yeah the cuts Republicans also passed/

Once again:

If I have to choose between cuts and cuts that will completely gut the Intel community, I guess I'll have to just go with cuts.

They were a bad idea, but read what Kerry wanted to do! If he could have, he'd have smashed our Intel community to virtual nothingness.

[Giant Saguaro]

Of course they do. Any US military operations in our own self interest and not sanctioned by the UN is evil.

Then why did Kerry vote for the 2002 war resolution?

Why does he vote two ways on everything? So he can try and please everybody. He voted for the war in 2002 so it couldn't be thrown back in his face, obviously, but it didn't matter if he had because it just ended up another inconsistency.

How do you know his motives?  Were you there?

My opinion?  He voted for the war because it felt it was the right thing to do.

That's fine if that's your opinion, but I disagree. He votes against the Gulf War, smears our vets, the AZ Democrat just 10 years ago says he's proposing cuts far deeper than anyone else, he was against standing up to the Soviet Union, he was for a nuclear freeze, and then he turns around in 2002 with a Presidential run coming up and votes for authorization to use force. Well that goes against everything he had said and done 30 years before it, so it's obvious to me he didn't want it thrown back in his face. But it hurt him a bit anyway, because it showed up as just him trying to cover all the bases.

\


As far as the Intel Cuts goes, yeah the cuts Republicans also passed/

Once again:

If I have to choose between cuts and cuts that will completely gut the Intel community, I guess I'll have to just go with cuts.

They were a bad idea, but read what Kerry wanted to do! If he could have, he'd have smashed our Intel community to virtual nothingness.

Completley gut the Intelligence Community??  Based on what.  Their was very little difference in the total cuts

Based on his votes from the 1980s to the present. In the late '80s and early '90s it was decided upon by pretty much everyone, including the military, that some cuts could now be made. No more Soviet Union. So everyone was for the cuts at that time, the only question was how much. Now in retrospect, yes, we see that they weren't a good idea mainly because in the current context of terrorism UBL had a desire to hold together al-Qaeda, founded in '88, and it was decided upon that the best way to do that was to keep the conflict going, identify another enemy since they had been so successful in fighting the Commies. He didn't want what he had to dissolve, it was too effective to let fall apart. The USA was the next target, and much of it was just that: he wanted a new target so he could keep his movement going and hold it together, because nothing binds like a common enemy. We underestimated him.

That said, Kerry has supported severely cutting the military and intel all along, from the 1980s up till now when he suddenly changes directions and now he says he's for a bigger military and so on and so forth. Well he never has been before and his votes don't match what he says! Again, yes, cuts were backed by the GOP, but they were backed by everyone at that time.

Well guys, I'm getting a bit tired. No, I don't think John Kerry HATES (such a strong word) America, but gosh, I think his judgment is sure screwy. I prefer to keep taking the fight to the terrorists than stop and let the UN lead. But wait, Kerry even voted against war when it was sanctioned by them... actually, I think he's just weak, guys, and I do think he sees us as aggressors. Not what he need now. No. Huh-uh, not for me.

HATES America? No.

Well, good evening or g'night, all, depending upon where you are!