Jesse Helms Dead at 86
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  Jesse Helms Dead at 86
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elcorazon
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« Reply #100 on: July 06, 2008, 09:12:26 AM »

This thread is kinda interesting actually.  My first thought regarding all the handwringing about the negative Helms' comments is that we're not at his funeral, so far as we know, none of his family posts here and as a result, any such comments can't really be truly "disrespectful".

My second thought, beyond the Osama Bin Laden comments, which I agree with - where does one draw the line between evil (Hitler, Bin Laden, Gacy, etc.) is whether the people who complain so much about those who are disrespecting the dead here have similar compassion when doling out the death penalty.

I dunno - those are my thoughts.  Helms' success as a politician is partly what makes me doubt whether Obama can actually win NC... hopefully the state has changed enough in the past 20 years to allow a majority to vote for Obama.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #101 on: July 07, 2008, 11:06:54 PM »
« Edited: July 08, 2008, 12:05:13 AM by Governor Duke, Dirty South »

Reading through this thread makes me kind of sad at some of the pathetic losers that infest this place. Sure, I didn't agree with all of what Helms did or said during his years, but this man ran and stood for what he believes in. He refused to give in to the political pressures or cheapen himself to be "liked by others." He truly lived by the idea that he'd rather be who he was and be hated than be someone he wasn't and be loved. I admire him for who he was, not by what he did. He took a position and he stood up for it. People like him are no longer around. I doubt I can name a politician that doesn't jump around on his beliefs just to gain votes. Helms certainly didn't do that.

It's too bad a lot of you are too intolerant and closed minded yourselves or too full of hate to take a step back and pay respects to this man instead of embarrassing yourselves on this forum by acting like immature bafoons.

I am sure when Ted Kennedy, Byrd etc, dies, you pathetic liberals will cry and scream if anyone says anything negative about them. What sad people you folks are.

Jessie Helms deserves respect for what reason?

When did he ever show respect to gays, blacks and women?

Fcuk him. I'd let my dog piss on his grave for all I care.

You, my friend, are one of the saddest individuals I have ever come across. I do hope one day you'll grow up and learn how to conduct yourself in a respectful manner.
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ChrisFromNJ
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« Reply #102 on: July 07, 2008, 11:19:41 PM »

Sorry to not sugar coat anything, but the truth is the truth. Helms benefited politically from rather obvious race baiting. And he was unrepentant and unapologetic bigot up until his death. Even Strom Thurmond repented. Cannot say the same for Jessie Helms.

And BTW... thanks for the compliment... coming from the worst poster on this forum, that is an honor!
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #103 on: July 07, 2008, 11:37:08 PM »

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Ha.. I knew that would be the response I got from you. Being called the worst poster on this forum by Mr. "Newsweek doesn't have an agenda" is very funny.
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« Reply #104 on: July 08, 2008, 12:05:57 AM »

Reading through this thread makes me kind of sad at some of the pathetic losers that infest this place. Sure, I didn't agree with all of what Helms did or said during his years, but this man ran and stood for what he believes in. He refused to give in to the political pressures or cheapen himself to be "liked by others." He truly lived by the idea that he'd rather be who he was and be hated than be someone he wasn't and be loved. I admire him for who he was, not by what he did. He took a position and he stood up for it. People like him are no longer around. I doubt I can name a politician that doesn't jump around on his beliefs just to gain votes. Helms certainly didn't do that.



Do you admire David Duke for 'standing up for what he believes in'?

Cindy Shaheen?

Westboro Baptist Church?

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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #105 on: July 08, 2008, 01:05:55 AM »

Sorry, but standing up for what you believe in, when it is racism, bigotry and irrational hatred of your fellow man, and then making a career out of that, is not worthy of respect or admiration.
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Eraserhead
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« Reply #106 on: July 09, 2008, 05:33:22 PM »


Sure you could and I'm sure you would. At least the guy in my sig never threatened to have blacks arrested for voting though. That's awfully strange, don't you think?
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Sbane
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« Reply #107 on: July 09, 2008, 06:50:14 PM »

He was an unrepentant racist and he is worthy of no respect. If there is a god may he forgive him.
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nclib
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« Reply #108 on: July 09, 2008, 07:40:46 PM »

Interesting article.

http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/politicians/helms/story/1135443.html

He quit rather than lower flag for Helms

RALEIGH - L.F. Eason III gave up the only job he'd ever had rather than lower a flag to honor former U.S. Sen. Jesse Helms.
Eason, a 29-year veteran of the state Department of Agriculture, instructed his staff at a small Raleigh lab not to fly the U.S. or North Carolina flags at half-staff Monday, as called for in a directive to all state agencies by Gov. Mike Easley.

When a superior ordered the lab to follow the directive, Eason decided to retire rather than pay tribute to Helms. After several hours' delay, one of Eason's employees hung the flags at half-staff.

The brouhaha began late Sunday night, when Eason e-mailed eight of his employees in the state standards lab, which calibrates measuring equipment used on things as widely varied as gasoline and hamburgers.

"Regardless of any executive proclamation, I do not want the flags at the North Carolina Standards Laboratory flown at half staff to honor Jesse Helms any time this week," Eason wrote just after midnight, according to e-mail messages released in response to a public records request.

He told his staff that he did not think it was appropriate to honor Helms because of his "doctrine of negativity, hate, and prejudice" and his opposition to civil rights bills and the federal Martin Luther King Jr. holiday.

Eason said in an interview Tuesday that he did not typically lower the flag himself, but that, as head of the lab, he supervised the technician who did. He also trained new employees on proper flag etiquette, including a one-person folding technique he learned in Boy Scouts.

When the lab opened Monday morning, the flags were not out at all. An employee called Eason's boss, Stephen Benjamin, who worked in another building in Raleigh. About 10:45 a.m., Benjamin told one of Eason's co-workers to put the flags at half-staff.

Another of Eason's superiors later drove by the lab to make sure the flags were up properly.

No one in the Governor's Office was aware of any time in recent memory when a state employee refused to lower a flag. Brian Long, a spokesman for the Agriculture Department, said Eason's refusal was unexpected.

"We've never had any conversations like that," he said.

An ultimatum

In a string of e-mail messages with his superiors, Eason was told he could either lower the flags or retire effective immediately.

Though he's only 51, Eason chose to retire, although he pleaded several times to be allowed to stay at the lab. Eason, who had worked for the Agriculture Department since graduating from college, was paid $65,235 a year as the laboratory manager.

Several people, including his wife, argued to Eason that the flags belonged to the state, as did the lab. But Eason said he felt a strong sense of ownership.

Eason and a previous boss had sketched out the building's rough design on a napkin at the Atlanta airport in 1984 after attending a national conference on weights and measures.

He then worked to get funding for it in the state budget, and he recently helped snag state money to study building another lab.

"I designed and built that lab," he said. "Even though technically the bricks and mortar belong to the state of North Carolina, I feel very strongly that everything that comes out of there is my responsibility."

It was not the first time Eason felt uneasy about lowering the flag.

A registered Democrat who frequently votes a split ticket, he said he had no problems lowering the flag for former Sen. Terry Sanford or President Reagan. But he remembers wondering whether he would be willing to lower the flag after President Nixon's death.

He never had to make that decision, since it rained both days.

Monday was sunny. And Eason was out of a job.
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« Reply #109 on: July 09, 2008, 07:41:52 PM »


Sure you could and I'm sure you would. At least the guy in my sig never threatened to have blacks arrested for voting though. That's awfully strange, don't you think?

What.

He seriously did that?
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Dan the Roman
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« Reply #110 on: July 09, 2008, 07:45:07 PM »

Everyone who says he was brave for sticking by his beliefs - your wrong, he was a coward. It is easy to attack those weaker than you and stick by mistaken positions once you realize they are wrong. It takes courage to say you were wrong and say you were sorry. George Wallace and Strom Thurmond did terrible things, but they had the decency to realize they were wrong, to apologize to those they hurt, and to try and make the world a better place.

Helms felt no guilt, no remorse. He preyed on the worst in people, and held back his state and country. I have no need to show respect to him any more than I do to Robert Mugabe, who also by the way has stuck to his beliefs regardless of whatever criticisms he has faced. They would get along well together.
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #111 on: July 09, 2008, 07:45:37 PM »

I don't miss him.  People say he was "principled"... bullsh**t.  He cooperated with Howard Metzenbaum to block legislation he didn't like from getting to the floor, using the convenience of inane Senate rules.  That's not "standing up" for what you believe in.  That's sneaking through the backdoor.  He was a disgusting creature, who should have been purged from this planet long ago.
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« Reply #112 on: July 09, 2008, 07:47:57 PM »

Interesting article.

http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/politicians/helms/story/1135443.html

He quit rather than lower flag for Helms

RALEIGH - L.F. Eason III gave up the only job he'd ever had rather than lower a flag to honor former U.S. Sen. Jesse Helms.
Eason, a 29-year veteran of the state Department of Agriculture, instructed his staff at a small Raleigh lab not to fly the U.S. or North Carolina flags at half-staff Monday, as called for in a directive to all state agencies by Gov. Mike Easley.

When a superior ordered the lab to follow the directive, Eason decided to retire rather than pay tribute to Helms. After several hours' delay, one of Eason's employees hung the flags at half-staff.

The brouhaha began late Sunday night, when Eason e-mailed eight of his employees in the state standards lab, which calibrates measuring equipment used on things as widely varied as gasoline and hamburgers.

"Regardless of any executive proclamation, I do not want the flags at the North Carolina Standards Laboratory flown at half staff to honor Jesse Helms any time this week," Eason wrote just after midnight, according to e-mail messages released in response to a public records request.

He told his staff that he did not think it was appropriate to honor Helms because of his "doctrine of negativity, hate, and prejudice" and his opposition to civil rights bills and the federal Martin Luther King Jr. holiday.

Eason said in an interview Tuesday that he did not typically lower the flag himself, but that, as head of the lab, he supervised the technician who did. He also trained new employees on proper flag etiquette, including a one-person folding technique he learned in Boy Scouts.

When the lab opened Monday morning, the flags were not out at all. An employee called Eason's boss, Stephen Benjamin, who worked in another building in Raleigh. About 10:45 a.m., Benjamin told one of Eason's co-workers to put the flags at half-staff.

Another of Eason's superiors later drove by the lab to make sure the flags were up properly.

No one in the Governor's Office was aware of any time in recent memory when a state employee refused to lower a flag. Brian Long, a spokesman for the Agriculture Department, said Eason's refusal was unexpected.

"We've never had any conversations like that," he said.

An ultimatum

In a string of e-mail messages with his superiors, Eason was told he could either lower the flags or retire effective immediately.

Though he's only 51, Eason chose to retire, although he pleaded several times to be allowed to stay at the lab. Eason, who had worked for the Agriculture Department since graduating from college, was paid $65,235 a year as the laboratory manager.

Several people, including his wife, argued to Eason that the flags belonged to the state, as did the lab. But Eason said he felt a strong sense of ownership.

Eason and a previous boss had sketched out the building's rough design on a napkin at the Atlanta airport in 1984 after attending a national conference on weights and measures.

He then worked to get funding for it in the state budget, and he recently helped snag state money to study building another lab.

"I designed and built that lab," he said. "Even though technically the bricks and mortar belong to the state of North Carolina, I feel very strongly that everything that comes out of there is my responsibility."

It was not the first time Eason felt uneasy about lowering the flag.

A registered Democrat who frequently votes a split ticket, he said he had no problems lowering the flag for former Sen. Terry Sanford or President Reagan. But he remembers wondering whether he would be willing to lower the flag after President Nixon's death.

He never had to make that decision, since it rained both days.

Monday was sunny. And Eason was out of a job.

FF.
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ChrisFromNJ
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« Reply #113 on: July 09, 2008, 07:56:26 PM »

A Jesse Helms eulogy.

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/07/04/jesse-helms-american-garbage/

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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #114 on: July 09, 2008, 10:58:12 PM »

Interesting article.

http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/politicians/helms/story/1135443.html

He quit rather than lower flag for Helms

RALEIGH - L.F. Eason III gave up the only job he'd ever had rather than lower a flag to honor former U.S. Sen. Jesse Helms.
Eason, a 29-year veteran of the state Department of Agriculture, instructed his staff at a small Raleigh lab not to fly the U.S. or North Carolina flags at half-staff Monday, as called for in a directive to all state agencies by Gov. Mike Easley.

When a superior ordered the lab to follow the directive, Eason decided to retire rather than pay tribute to Helms. After several hours' delay, one of Eason's employees hung the flags at half-staff.

The brouhaha began late Sunday night, when Eason e-mailed eight of his employees in the state standards lab, which calibrates measuring equipment used on things as widely varied as gasoline and hamburgers.

"Regardless of any executive proclamation, I do not want the flags at the North Carolina Standards Laboratory flown at half staff to honor Jesse Helms any time this week," Eason wrote just after midnight, according to e-mail messages released in response to a public records request.

He told his staff that he did not think it was appropriate to honor Helms because of his "doctrine of negativity, hate, and prejudice" and his opposition to civil rights bills and the federal Martin Luther King Jr. holiday.

Eason said in an interview Tuesday that he did not typically lower the flag himself, but that, as head of the lab, he supervised the technician who did. He also trained new employees on proper flag etiquette, including a one-person folding technique he learned in Boy Scouts.

When the lab opened Monday morning, the flags were not out at all. An employee called Eason's boss, Stephen Benjamin, who worked in another building in Raleigh. About 10:45 a.m., Benjamin told one of Eason's co-workers to put the flags at half-staff.

Another of Eason's superiors later drove by the lab to make sure the flags were up properly.

No one in the Governor's Office was aware of any time in recent memory when a state employee refused to lower a flag. Brian Long, a spokesman for the Agriculture Department, said Eason's refusal was unexpected.

"We've never had any conversations like that," he said.

An ultimatum

In a string of e-mail messages with his superiors, Eason was told he could either lower the flags or retire effective immediately.

Though he's only 51, Eason chose to retire, although he pleaded several times to be allowed to stay at the lab. Eason, who had worked for the Agriculture Department since graduating from college, was paid $65,235 a year as the laboratory manager.

Several people, including his wife, argued to Eason that the flags belonged to the state, as did the lab. But Eason said he felt a strong sense of ownership.

Eason and a previous boss had sketched out the building's rough design on a napkin at the Atlanta airport in 1984 after attending a national conference on weights and measures.

He then worked to get funding for it in the state budget, and he recently helped snag state money to study building another lab.

"I designed and built that lab," he said. "Even though technically the bricks and mortar belong to the state of North Carolina, I feel very strongly that everything that comes out of there is my responsibility."

It was not the first time Eason felt uneasy about lowering the flag.

A registered Democrat who frequently votes a split ticket, he said he had no problems lowering the flag for former Sen. Terry Sanford or President Reagan. But he remembers wondering whether he would be willing to lower the flag after President Nixon's death.

He never had to make that decision, since it rained both days.

Monday was sunny. And Eason was out of a job.

FF.
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Sbane
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« Reply #115 on: July 10, 2008, 12:02:06 AM »

Interesting article.

http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/politicians/helms/story/1135443.html

He quit rather than lower flag for Helms

RALEIGH - L.F. Eason III gave up the only job he'd ever had rather than lower a flag to honor former U.S. Sen. Jesse Helms.
Eason, a 29-year veteran of the state Department of Agriculture, instructed his staff at a small Raleigh lab not to fly the U.S. or North Carolina flags at half-staff Monday, as called for in a directive to all state agencies by Gov. Mike Easley.

When a superior ordered the lab to follow the directive, Eason decided to retire rather than pay tribute to Helms. After several hours' delay, one of Eason's employees hung the flags at half-staff.

The brouhaha began late Sunday night, when Eason e-mailed eight of his employees in the state standards lab, which calibrates measuring equipment used on things as widely varied as gasoline and hamburgers.

"Regardless of any executive proclamation, I do not want the flags at the North Carolina Standards Laboratory flown at half staff to honor Jesse Helms any time this week," Eason wrote just after midnight, according to e-mail messages released in response to a public records request.

He told his staff that he did not think it was appropriate to honor Helms because of his "doctrine of negativity, hate, and prejudice" and his opposition to civil rights bills and the federal Martin Luther King Jr. holiday.

Eason said in an interview Tuesday that he did not typically lower the flag himself, but that, as head of the lab, he supervised the technician who did. He also trained new employees on proper flag etiquette, including a one-person folding technique he learned in Boy Scouts.

When the lab opened Monday morning, the flags were not out at all. An employee called Eason's boss, Stephen Benjamin, who worked in another building in Raleigh. About 10:45 a.m., Benjamin told one of Eason's co-workers to put the flags at half-staff.

Another of Eason's superiors later drove by the lab to make sure the flags were up properly.

No one in the Governor's Office was aware of any time in recent memory when a state employee refused to lower a flag. Brian Long, a spokesman for the Agriculture Department, said Eason's refusal was unexpected.

"We've never had any conversations like that," he said.

An ultimatum

In a string of e-mail messages with his superiors, Eason was told he could either lower the flags or retire effective immediately.

Though he's only 51, Eason chose to retire, although he pleaded several times to be allowed to stay at the lab. Eason, who had worked for the Agriculture Department since graduating from college, was paid $65,235 a year as the laboratory manager.

Several people, including his wife, argued to Eason that the flags belonged to the state, as did the lab. But Eason said he felt a strong sense of ownership.

Eason and a previous boss had sketched out the building's rough design on a napkin at the Atlanta airport in 1984 after attending a national conference on weights and measures.

He then worked to get funding for it in the state budget, and he recently helped snag state money to study building another lab.

"I designed and built that lab," he said. "Even though technically the bricks and mortar belong to the state of North Carolina, I feel very strongly that everything that comes out of there is my responsibility."

It was not the first time Eason felt uneasy about lowering the flag.

A registered Democrat who frequently votes a split ticket, he said he had no problems lowering the flag for former Sen. Terry Sanford or President Reagan. But he remembers wondering whether he would be willing to lower the flag after President Nixon's death.

He never had to make that decision, since it rained both days.

Monday was sunny. And Eason was out of a job.

FF.
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Sensei
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« Reply #116 on: July 10, 2008, 12:18:47 AM »

Interesting article.

http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/politicians/helms/story/1135443.html

He quit rather than lower flag for Helms

RALEIGH - L.F. Eason III gave up the only job he'd ever had rather than lower a flag to honor former U.S. Sen. Jesse Helms.
Eason, a 29-year veteran of the state Department of Agriculture, instructed his staff at a small Raleigh lab not to fly the U.S. or North Carolina flags at half-staff Monday, as called for in a directive to all state agencies by Gov. Mike Easley.

When a superior ordered the lab to follow the directive, Eason decided to retire rather than pay tribute to Helms. After several hours' delay, one of Eason's employees hung the flags at half-staff.

The brouhaha began late Sunday night, when Eason e-mailed eight of his employees in the state standards lab, which calibrates measuring equipment used on things as widely varied as gasoline and hamburgers.

"Regardless of any executive proclamation, I do not want the flags at the North Carolina Standards Laboratory flown at half staff to honor Jesse Helms any time this week," Eason wrote just after midnight, according to e-mail messages released in response to a public records request.

He told his staff that he did not think it was appropriate to honor Helms because of his "doctrine of negativity, hate, and prejudice" and his opposition to civil rights bills and the federal Martin Luther King Jr. holiday.

Eason said in an interview Tuesday that he did not typically lower the flag himself, but that, as head of the lab, he supervised the technician who did. He also trained new employees on proper flag etiquette, including a one-person folding technique he learned in Boy Scouts.

When the lab opened Monday morning, the flags were not out at all. An employee called Eason's boss, Stephen Benjamin, who worked in another building in Raleigh. About 10:45 a.m., Benjamin told one of Eason's co-workers to put the flags at half-staff.

Another of Eason's superiors later drove by the lab to make sure the flags were up properly.

No one in the Governor's Office was aware of any time in recent memory when a state employee refused to lower a flag. Brian Long, a spokesman for the Agriculture Department, said Eason's refusal was unexpected.

"We've never had any conversations like that," he said.

An ultimatum

In a string of e-mail messages with his superiors, Eason was told he could either lower the flags or retire effective immediately.

Though he's only 51, Eason chose to retire, although he pleaded several times to be allowed to stay at the lab. Eason, who had worked for the Agriculture Department since graduating from college, was paid $65,235 a year as the laboratory manager.

Several people, including his wife, argued to Eason that the flags belonged to the state, as did the lab. But Eason said he felt a strong sense of ownership.

Eason and a previous boss had sketched out the building's rough design on a napkin at the Atlanta airport in 1984 after attending a national conference on weights and measures.

He then worked to get funding for it in the state budget, and he recently helped snag state money to study building another lab.

"I designed and built that lab," he said. "Even though technically the bricks and mortar belong to the state of North Carolina, I feel very strongly that everything that comes out of there is my responsibility."

It was not the first time Eason felt uneasy about lowering the flag.

A registered Democrat who frequently votes a split ticket, he said he had no problems lowering the flag for former Sen. Terry Sanford or President Reagan. But he remembers wondering whether he would be willing to lower the flag after President Nixon's death.

He never had to make that decision, since it rained both days.

Monday was sunny. And Eason was out of a job.

FF.
he's just stupid if he can't get private-sector work in his field.
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Eraserhead
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« Reply #117 on: July 10, 2008, 03:43:05 AM »


Sure you could and I'm sure you would. At least the guy in my sig never threatened to have blacks arrested for voting though. That's awfully strange, don't you think?

What.

He seriously did that?

Yes.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2008/07/helms-subtly-ca.html
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Albus Dumbledore
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« Reply #118 on: July 10, 2008, 08:27:24 AM »

What typical republican behavior. And keep in mind, Helms was one of the most liberal republicans in either house.
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« Reply #119 on: July 10, 2008, 10:17:13 PM »

What typical republican behavior. And keep in mind, Helms was one of the most liberal republicans in either house.

LOL.
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« Reply #120 on: July 11, 2008, 01:03:44 PM »


I am late coming to this thread because I was out of town.  I actually agree with States Raats.  There is no place for such invective.

Helms was my ideology enemy, but not my personal enemy.  I pray for the repose of his soul and for the comfort and healing of his family.  I was genuinely saddened to hear of his passing.
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« Reply #121 on: July 11, 2008, 02:49:23 PM »

If you're non-protestant, non-white, non-heterosexual or female(I am the first 3) you have the right to say as much invective about the fascist goon that was Jesse Helms. May he enjoy eternal fire.
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« Reply #122 on: July 12, 2008, 11:08:02 PM »

The guy was a terrible person. There really isn't much sense in pretending otherwise because he died (after a very long life at that).

Also, I really don't believe in an afterlife, so there isn't much point in praying for him.
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« Reply #123 on: July 14, 2008, 10:26:04 AM »

If you're non-protestant, non-white, non-heterosexual or female(I am the first 3) you have the right to say as much invective about the fascist goon that was Jesse Helms.

Or tolerant of any of the above.
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Albus Dumbledore
Havelock Vetinari
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Congo, The Democratic Republic of the


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« Reply #124 on: July 14, 2008, 12:15:24 PM »

That too.
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