Jesse Helms Dead at 86

[Gravis Marketing]

In the same day:

RIP Mary Jo.

asshats

Really?  Do you know how many worse comments are posted about conservatives when they die who aren't murderers?

and

Matthew Shepherd is a moron for accepting a ride from a complete stranger

[State Comptroller Atkins]

In the same day:

RIP Mary Jo.

asshats

Really?  Do you know how many worse comments are posted about conservatives when they die who aren't murderers?

and

Matthew Shepherd is a moron for accepting a ride from a complete stranger

DWTL is making Robert Stark look like a liberal hero.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I promised hell when this moron died (Kennedy) if liberals didn't respect conservatives and the double standard has driven me to the point where this is necessary

[Lief]

I promised hell when this moron died (Kennedy) if liberals didn't respect conservatives and the double standard has driven me to the point where this is necessary

Do you have parents? Because evidently no one ever taught you that two wrongs don't make a right.

[State Comptroller Atkins]

I promised hell when this moron died (Kennedy) if liberals didn't respect conservatives and the double standard has driven me to the point where this is necessary

Do you have parents? Because evidently no one ever taught you that two wrongs don't make a right.

He was educated in a New Jersey public school....enough said.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I promised hell when this moron died (Kennedy) if liberals didn't respect conservatives and the double standard has driven me to the point where this is necessary

Do you have parents? Because evidently no one ever taught you that two wrongs don't make a right.

Please, take your own advice.  At least I admit that I can see why people would hate conservatives unlike liberals such as your yourself who pretend Ted Kennedy is an untouchable deity

[Sewer]

I promised hell when this moron died (Kennedy) if liberals didn't respect conservatives and the double standard has driven me to the point where this is necessary

I don't respect racists.

[State Comptroller Atkins]

I promised hell when this moron died (Kennedy) if liberals didn't respect conservatives and the double standard has driven me to the point where this is necessary

Do you have parents? Because evidently no one ever taught you that two wrongs don't make a right.

Please, take your own advice.  At least I admit that I can see why people would hate conservatives unlike liberals such as your yourself who pretend Ted Kennedy is an untouchable deity

Projection.

[Hillary 2016]

My goodness such hostility from the person that started this forum.  Again with the liberals this and liberals that.  I only wish we could all go to Australia.  The Liberals there are the right wingers.  As they should be since the word liberal meant free-trade laissez faire.  Progressive was always the word for people that challenged greed and wanted to change the world they lived in to make it healthier, safer, and happier for all.

Anyway, No, when anyone dies it is probably sad for at least someone.  Jesse Helms was raised in a world that was different than ours.  It would have been commonplace for him to have the views he did.  That is not a defense of his behavior. 

I would imagine that when Jesse Helms or Strom Thurmond arrived in Heaven, Martin Luther King was there to take his hand.  In Heaven, there is no such thing as hate.

[Lunar]

I promised hell when this moron died (Kennedy) if liberals didn't respect conservatives and the double standard has driven me to the point where this is necessary

you're sure teaching them a lesson instead of coming across as a petty jerk, so I think the plan is working.

[Proud Lieberal from Northeast]

I promised hell when this moron died (Kennedy) if liberals didn't respect conservatives and the double standard has driven me to the point where this is necessary

Do you have parents? Because evidently no one ever taught you that two wrongs don't make a right.

Please, take your own advice.  At least I admit that I can see why people would hate conservatives unlike liberals such as your yourself who pretend Ted Kennedy is an untouchable deity

It's a difference between regarding himself as an untouchable deity (which I don't see there) and just paying a respect for a recently deceased man.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Jesse Helms did some horrible things. Ted Kennedy did some horrible things. Jesse Helms was committed to what he believed in. Ted Kennedy was committed to what he believed in. Jesse Helms worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Ted Kennedy worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Jesse Helms has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. Ted Kennedy has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. We all need to be fair to these men if we are going to continue to have valid arguments. Hypocrisy is not respected.

[Alexander Hamilton]

I promised hell when this moron died (Kennedy) if liberals didn't respect conservatives and the double standard has driven me to the point where this is necessary

Do you have parents? Because evidently no one ever taught you that two wrongs don't make a right.

He was educated in a New Jersey public school....enough said.

NJ's public schools are ranked number one. Or they were.

[Scam of God]

Hypocrisy is not respected.

Particularly from you.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Hypocrisy is not respected.

Particularly from you.

You're still a dumbass. Does anyone on here like you? Honestly, I'd rather hear what JokeConservative has to say.

[Scam of God]

Hypocrisy is not respected.

Particularly from you.

You're still a dumbass.

'Least I'm not a self-serving hypocrite.

Does anyone on here like you?

Do I care?

Honestly, I'd rather hear what JokeConservative has to say.

Especially since you envy his ability to say what you secretly want to.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Hypocrisy is not respected.

Particularly from you.

You're still a dumbass.

'Least I'm not a self-serving hypocrite.

Does anyone on here like you?

Do I care?

Honestly, I'd rather hear what JokeConservative has to say.

Especially since you envy his ability to say what you secretly want to.

I'm not a self-serving hypocrite and I deplore JokeConservative's ideas related to anything. As I do yours. Stop making Democrats look bad.

[Scam of God]

Hypocrisy is not respected.

Particularly from you.

You're still a dumbass.

'Least I'm not a self-serving hypocrite.

Does anyone on here like you?

Do I care?

Honestly, I'd rather hear what JokeConservative has to say.

Especially since you envy his ability to say what you secretly want to.

I'm not a self-serving hypocrite

Sure you are. You don't stand up for sh**t in the face of the right-wing.

and I deplore JokeConservative's ideas related to anything.

No you don't. You like to pretend you do, though.

Stop making Democrats look bad.

Except I'm a libertarian.

Unlike you, lolol!

[Alexander Hamilton]

Hypocrisy is not respected.

Particularly from you.

You're still a dumbass.

'Least I'm not a self-serving hypocrite.

Does anyone on here like you?

Do I care?

Honestly, I'd rather hear what JokeConservative has to say.

Especially since you envy his ability to say what you secretly want to.

I'm not a self-serving hypocrite

Sure you are. You don't stand up for sh**t in the face of the right-wing.

and I deplore JokeConservative's ideas related to anything.

No you don't. You like to pretend you do, though.

Stop making Democrats look bad.

Except I'm a libertarian.

Unlike you, lolol!

You have a D avatar. That makes Democrats look bad. And I don't know why you say I don't stand up for sh**t in the face of the right-wing when I have repeatedly bitchslapped the Religious Right and the radical right. What have you done to try and engage in reasonable debate with other posters? You merely attack people, pick fights, and try and get a self-esteem boost out of it. Not respectable. NEXT

[Sibboleth]

Jesse Helms did some horrible things. Ted Kennedy did some horrible things. Jesse Helms was committed to what he believed in. Ted Kennedy was committed to what he believed in. Jesse Helms worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Ted Kennedy worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Jesse Helms has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. Ted Kennedy has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. We all need to be fair to these men if we are going to continue to have valid arguments. Hypocrisy is not respected.

Follow that line of reasoning and soon you'll say that it's wrong to condemn Hitler, Stalin and an entire host of bloodthirsty maniacs on the basis that to do so would be hypocritical. Moral relativism and empty politeness are the death of honest debate.

Regardless, you're quite wrong to claim that Kennedy (for all his undoubted flaws, and do please not that I never exactly liked the man) sits (or sat) on the same moral level as Helms. Helms was a vicious, open and cynical racist, a corrupt bully, an xenophobic bigot and a hypocritical coward. I am, as it happens, being entirely fair to the man. Perhaps too fair - I somehow managed to avoid using words like "fascist" and "nazi". Unkind people might look at your apparent liking of him and wonder whether your claims of "moderation" are as shallow and as false as the political "beliefs" of most of the other young 'uns here.

[Senator Sbane]

Jesse Helms did some horrible things. Ted Kennedy did some horrible things. Jesse Helms was committed to what he believed in. Ted Kennedy was committed to what he believed in. Jesse Helms worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Ted Kennedy worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Jesse Helms has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. Ted Kennedy has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. We all need to be fair to these men if we are going to continue to have valid arguments. Hypocrisy is not respected.

I am sorry but you just cannot compare Jesse Helms to Ted Kennedy. Jesse Helms was a racist and a bigot who is surely getting deep fried in hell as we speak if it exists at all. Kennedy on the other hand, in his illustrious senate career, has helped those who were downtrodden in society like women, minorities and the disabled. You might not have agreed with all his policies and that is quite understandable, but that does not make him morally equivalent to a bigot. And I would say the same thing about most republican senators who I disagree with, but cretins like Jesse Helms and Jeff Sessions are on a different plane.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Jesse Helms did some horrible things. Ted Kennedy did some horrible things. Jesse Helms was committed to what he believed in. Ted Kennedy was committed to what he believed in. Jesse Helms worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Ted Kennedy worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Jesse Helms has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. Ted Kennedy has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. We all need to be fair to these men if we are going to continue to have valid arguments. Hypocrisy is not respected.

I am sorry but you just cannot compare Jesse Helms to Ted Kennedy. Jesse Helms was a racist and a bigot who is surely getting deep fried in hell as we speak if it exists at all. Kennedy on the other hand, in his illustrious senate career, has helped those who were downtrodden in society like women, minorities and the disabled. You might not have agreed with all his policies and that is quite understandable, but that does not make him morally equivalent to a bigot. And I would say the same thing about most republican senators who I disagree with, but cretins like Jesse Helms and Jeff Sessions are on a different plane.

Ted Kennedy was in no way shape a form a moral, upstanding citizen. In fact, he is involved in numerous crimes, some more deadly than others.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Jesse Helms did some horrible things. Ted Kennedy did some horrible things. Jesse Helms was committed to what he believed in. Ted Kennedy was committed to what he believed in. Jesse Helms worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Ted Kennedy worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Jesse Helms has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. Ted Kennedy has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. We all need to be fair to these men if we are going to continue to have valid arguments. Hypocrisy is not respected.

Follow that line of reasoning and soon you'll say that it's wrong to condemn Hitler, Stalin and an entire host of bloodthirsty maniacs on the basis that to do so would be hypocritical. Moral relativism and empty politeness are the death of honest debate.

I never said not to be critical of them. I was critical of both senators. I said to be fair to them regardless of their political views.

Regardless, someone directly involved in a murder is generally no better than a bigot. Nor did I make a claim to them being completely equal. I just find it vile that despite all the bad things Teddy has done, he is glorified, while despite all the good things Helms has done he is villainized.

[Gravis Marketing]

Ted Kennedy was in no way shape a form a moral, upstanding citizen.

You'd be ok if you hadn't said "in no way, shape, or form." He had a screwed up personal life for several years and there's Chappaquiddick. If Chappaquiddick were the defining moment of his life and the only thing he'd ever done, then he'd have gone down in history as a malevolent loser like Neil Bush. But he is also judged for his 45+ years in the Senate and his many accomplishments on issues that were divisive at the time but which have come to be embraced as national leaps forward, like abolishing the poll tax and fighting for civil rights against conservative opposition. He also looked out for the excluded, for poor people, for immigrants, for those without health care, for racial minorities, for gays and lesbians, but I understand some people would prefer to describe that as being a social liberal as opposed to a social conservative, and therefore not particularly moral. That's fine, this country can embrace a diversity of views.

Above all else, he knew how to work with people of opposing views and negotiate a compromise while staying true to his principles. That's why he is being remembered in a way that, say, Patrick Leahy won't. Or Jesse Helms.

[Gravis Marketing]

Regardless, someone directly involved in a murder is generally no better than a bigot.

1. Murder has a definition, and what happened was not murder. Any more than Laura Bush murdered her high school ex-boyfriend by running him down with her car—a tragedy that has mercifully not been exploited for political purposes.

2. I'm sorry, but I do think that a crime in one's personal life can't be seen as equivalent to policy that affects thousands or millions of people. (I'm sure you or Coburn in 2012 can go on to talk about abortion, but whatever.)