Smid's Diplomacy Game Thread #1

[Lunar]

Oh I'm so excited oh oh!

[Smid]

The moves for Spring 1908 were:



France
F Brest - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Burgundy Supports A Ruhr - Munich
F Gulf of Lyon - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Bounce*)
F Marseilles - Gulf of Lyon (*Fails*)
A Munich - Tyrolia
A Ruhr - Munich
A Sevastopol - Armenia
F Tunis Supports F Gulf of Lyon - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Venice Supports A Munich - Tyrolia (*Dislodged*)

Russia
A Budapest - Vienna
A Finland - Norway (*Disbanded*)
F Gulf of Bothnia - Sweden (*Fails*)
F Ionian Sea Supports F Naples - Tyrrhenian Sea
F Livonia - Baltic Sea (*Fails*)
A Moscow Supports A St Petersburg
A Rumania - Sevastopol
A Silesia - Prussia
A St Petersburg Holds
A Trieste Supports A Rome - Venice
A Tyrolia - Bohemia
A Warsaw Supports A Silesia - Prussia

Italy
F Naples - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Bounce*)
A Rome - Venice

Germany
N/A

Austria-Hungary
N/A

Turkey
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Ionian Sea (*Cut*)

England
F Baltic Sea - Gulf of Bothnia (*Fails*)
F Barents Sea - St Petersburg (nc) (*Fails*)
F Berlin Supports F Kiel
A Denmark Supports F Skaggerak - Sweden
A Edinburgh - Belgium
F Kiel Supports F Berlin
F North Sea Convoys A Edinburgh - Belgium
A Norway Supports F Sweden - Finland
F Skagerrak - Sweden
F Sweden - Finland

Resolved, the map appears thus:



And pre-retreats, the map is:



There is only one necessary retreat - the French Army in Venice.

[Lunar]

Wait, attacking cuts off support, right?

If I attack Norway and Sweden, then only one unit can attack Finland unsupported, right?  How could that succeed?

[Smid]

Wait, attacking cuts off support, right?

If I attack Norway and Sweden, then only one unit can attack Finland unsupported, right?  How could that succeed?

On page 10 of the Rulebook:

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It goes on to provide an example in Diagram 16. The example is:

Germany
A Prussia - Warsaw
A Silesia S A Prussia - Warsaw

Russia
A Warsaw - Silesia.

The comment in the rules are:

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Your army in Finland would have cut support if the army in Norway was supporting F Bar - StP (nc), but because it was supporting into Finland, it didn't cut the support.

Sweden was the unit moving, so the attack on Finland from Sweden isn't affected by the Fleet in the Gulf of Bothnia. The move into Sweden fails because Skaggerak was supported by Denmark.

Sorry about any mixup there.

[Lunar]

Ah, that subpoint was unaware to me.  I thought I had the perfect strategy up there.  I thought Diplomacy was a simple game, but it gets more and more complicated the more I try and assemble my grand strategy together

Hmm...

thanks, I'll learn from my lessons.  My moves still weren't bad, even if I had known this rule.  It's just that they were less effective.  If I had fixed things retroactively, I could have stopped it, but I would have opened myself to an even bigger opening.  So I suppose I did nothing wrong, haha.

Onward, ho!

[muon2]

Another way to phase it is that you can't cut support on a unit with unit being attacked with help from that supporting unit. Secondly an attack on a moving unit has no effect on support associated with the attack from the moving unit.

[Smid]

The French Army retreats from Venice to Apulia:

[Lunar]

Some Drama:

1) Will France try and squash the last drop of life out of Turkey?
2) What will happen in Italy?
3) Can Lunar push Lewis back out of Finland and hold the North?
4) Where will Lewis go after StP - should he get it ?  He'll only have 2-3 armies and all of my other SC's are inland!  Will he let France get the lion's share of everything else?

[Smid]

Some Drama:

1) Will France try and squash the last drop of life out of Turkey?
2) What will happen in Italy?
3) Can Lunar push Lewis back out of Finland and hold the North?
4) Where will Lewis go after StP - should he get it ?  He'll only have 2-3 armies and all of my other SC's are inland!  Will he let France get the lion's share of everything else?

Tune in next time, same bat-time, same bat-channel...!

[muon2]

Some Drama:

1) Will France try and squash the last drop of life out of Turkey?
2) What will happen in Italy?
3) Can Lunar push Lewis back out of Finland and hold the North?
4) Where will Lewis go after StP - should he get it ?  He'll only have 2-3 armies and all of my other SC's are inland!  Will he let France get the lion's share of everything else?

On 1), I was a bit surprised that the squash didn't happen in 1906. The fleet in the Gulf of Lyon was static for two turns and might have been used for the destruction of the Tuscan Turks. One scenario I saw would have left Turkey rebuilding back in Ankara that year, and I suspect that would have made for some quite different moves after that.

[Smid]

Moves this week are:



France
A Apulia - Naples
A Armenia - Ankara
A Burgundy - Munich (*Fails*)
F Gulf of Lyon - Tyrrhenian Sea
F Marseiles - Gulf of Lyon
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - Western Mediterranean
A Munich - Bohemia (*Fails*)
F Tunis Supports F Gulf of Lyon - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Dislodged*)
A Tyrolia Supports A Munich - Bohemia (*Dislodged*)

Russia
A Bohemia Supports A Warsaw - Silesia (*Cut*)
F Gulf of Bothnia - Baltic Sea
F Ionian Sea Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea - Tunis
F Livonia Supports F Gulf of Bothnia - Baltic Sea
A Moscow - Sevastopol
A Prussia - Berlin (*Fails*)
A Sevastopol - Armenia
A St Petersburg - Norway (*Dislodged*)
A Trieste - Tyrolia
A Vienna Supports A Trieste - Tyrolia
A Warsaw - Silesia

Italy
F Naples - Rome
A Venice Supports A Trieste - Tyrolia

Germany
N/A

Austria-Hungary
N/A

Turkey
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Tunis

England
F Baltic Sea - Livonia (*Dislodged*)
F Barents Sea Supports F Finland - St Petersburg (sc)
A Belgium Hold
F Berlin Supports F Kiel (*Cut*)
A Denmark - Sweden
F Finland - St Petersburg (sc)
F Kiel Supports F Berlin
F North Sea Hold
A Norway Supports F Finland - St Petersburg (sc)
F Sweden - Gulf of Bothnia

The map therefore appears thus:



There are a number of retreats required, including:

Russian Army in St Petersburg;
English Fleet in Baltic Sea;
French Army in Tyrolia; and
French Fleet in Tunis; thus:

[minionofmidas]

I retreat to Denmark.

[The Mikado]

I've gone from King of Southern Italy to King of Northern Italy.

[Smid]

I've gone from King of Southern Italy to King of Northern Italy.

Doge of Venice and Rome.

[Хahar 🤔]

I've gone from King of Southern Italy to King of Northern Italy.

Doge of Venice and Rome.

Papal Doge sounds better.

[Lunar]

Damn, I thought Lewis might attack StP from Norway to get his army up there instead of his fleet and I could sneak into Norway.  That was my dream.

Only thing I'm disappointed in is Southern Italy, that area looks more hostile than I had hoped.

Question:  If I disbanded my army in StP, could I rebuild it that very same turn?

[Јas]

F Tunis - North Africa
A Tyrolia - Piedmont

[muon2]

Damn, I thought Lewis might attack StP from Norway to get his army up there instead of his fleet and I could sneak into Norway.  That was my dream.

Only thing I'm disappointed in is Southern Italy, that area looks more hostile than I had hoped.

Question:  If I disbanded my army in StP, could I rebuild it that very same turn?

Builds are determined after all dislodged units are resolved. If a unit disbands after fall moves and there are centers available for a build, the build could be the same type of unit that just disbanded.

[Lunar]

So if I disbanded my retreat, I could immediately build a new unit Warsaw?  If that's the case then I disband.

[Lunar]

So if I disbanded my retreat, I could immediately build a new unit Warsaw?  If that's the case then I disband.

If I can't immediately/consecutively build an army elsewhere, I retreat to Moscow btw.

[minionofmidas]

So if I disbanded my retreat, I could immediately build a new unit Warsaw?  If that's the case then I disband.

Yes, that is correct.
Wouldn't you get two builds in that case, though? You lost a unit in the spring, held your centers total.

Damn, I thought Lewis might attack StP from Norway to get his army up there instead of his fleet and I could sneak into Norway.  That was my dream.

Wouldn't have worked according to the rules.

I might have. But I decided to play it safe - this way, St Petersburg was untenable.

[Lunar]

So if I disbanded my retreat, I could immediately build a new unit Warsaw?  If that's the case then I disband.

Yes, that is correct.
Wouldn't you get two builds in that case, though? You lost a unit in the spring, held your centers total.

You took a province, I gained a province in Ukraine.  No inherent gain, right?

Just one build?

Makes a lot more sense for me to have a unit that can defend Livonia next turn rather than somehow shuttling my unit around from Ukraine to someplace useful.

[minionofmidas]

So if I disbanded my retreat, I could immediately build a new unit Warsaw?  If that's the case then I disband.

Yes, that is correct.
Wouldn't you get two builds in that case, though? You lost a unit in the spring, held your centers total.

You took a province, I gained a province in Ukraine.  No inherent gain, right?

Right. Meanwhile, you lost one unit (Finland in the spring), which you can now replace.

And if you choose to disband rather than retreat, you've lost two units which you can then replace.

[Lunar]

Oh, haha, I completely didn't notice that Finland unit dying.  I'm chagrined.  Even if I had taken Norway like my secret plan (which is no longer feasible) I wouldn't have been able to build extra units.  I actually don't need much more than two units to contain you up North for the next four or so

Fine, I formally retreat to Moscow.

[minionofmidas]

I succeeded in the North.

It won't happen again.

Well, hopefully so.

There was a way I could have stopped you from getting to the Baltic and take St Petersburg, btw. That actually was my first set of orders, but in the end I changed it because if you hadn't moved exactly like you did with your fleets, I would have destroyed my own fleet.